Who will be next?

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by wolfgang, Dec 10, 2003.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    scary,

    it would be way cheaper to buy a c blower than build a car that weighs 1900 lbs. its pretty hard to get them below 2000 without a small driver. i look at jason's car, and we would be very hard pressed to get 100 lbs off the car. it takes alot of carbon fiber, titanium and getting rid of stuff to do it.
     
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  2. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    ch3no2,
    Since you don't sign your name, I don't know who you are, but evidently you know my tune-up. However, I don't like to refer to the way I set the car up as "on kill". We respect the parts we own. Somebody put alot of work into making them, and then we put more work into them before they go on our car. Twice this year I burnt a piston. That was the worst damage we encountered all year. If that's "on kill", I guess your right. We do spin the engine 10,000 RPM, but if you bput the right parts in there, and build them right, they'll take it fine.
    Drop me an e-mail and let me know whom I'm talking with.
    If they allowed the "C" Blower, I would order one. Going fast is never cheap, and it would allow us to catch up (part way) to the AF/D's and stay with the other BA/D's. As long as NHRA won't let us have any new blower or head (the two most important parts for building horsepower with a BA/D) technology, we are sitting ducks.
    Probably not the smartest thing to go out there and race a BA/D right now, but no one ever accussed me of being smart.

    Merry Christmas,
    Marty
     
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  3. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    marty, we all know the reason you are going fast is that new deionizer flux inverter gyro mechanism. i think i have it figured out and will have one on our car for testing. i've done my homework on you marty.... :D

    happy holidays
     
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  4. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    While I am not a crew chief and only a volunteer helper on a couple team when absolutely neccessary (would rather promote than get dirty)even though I have been invlolved with teams for a number of years, here is a question for a guy like Marty who has a car that it probably near the 95-98% potential of a blown alcohol combination. Why not add a second mag 44 to your combination. By doing that could you not add more fuel which of course will burn because of the extra mag. If you burn more fuel should you not go faster? This is a question that I have been wanting to ask for a long time. Any experts out there that can give me an answer to this.
    Dean Murdoch, SpeedZone Magazine
     
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  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    i'm not what you would call an 'expert' but here's my reasoning. i think it holds merit not so much to burn extra fuel, but to reduce the amount of mag lead needed.

    i also don't think the gains associated with it would overcome the losses. a mag system weighs over 20 lbs and each mag takes 30+ hp to drive.

    hope that helps.
     
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  6. Scott Nelson

    Scott Nelson New Member

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    Dean,

    Not claiming to be an expert, but something to keep in mind is air/fuel ratio. With the blower being fixed, i.e. how much air can go through it, you will eventually get to a point where the amount of air running through the motor is at it's maximum potential. Once you can no longer increase the amount of air, you cannot increase the amount of fuel. Over the last few years, with improvements in injectors, heads, cams, etc. the increases are becoming harder and harder to come by, and I would guess that we are close to what that potential is.

    From what I understand, nitromethane has oxygen molecules in it's make-up, so therefore, it can produce it's own oxygen, and as long as it can be lit, the more fuel volume will create more power.
     
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  7. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Dean,
    A couple of pretty smart cookies have already given you answers, but to clarify; blown alcohol cars are oxygen limited. We have plenty of spark, can pump more fuel than we need, but with the restrictions that NHRA has on the blown alcohol combos (no improvements to blowers, no new head designs) the BA/D's are around 99% of their performance potential.
    Two mags has been tested by more than me, but saw more loss than gain.
    Merry Christmas,
     
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  8. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    Zone, blown cars did run 2 mags for a while. But when MSD came out with the 44 they all, or most, went to this. It's a lot better than the old mallory stuff. Alcohol cars only burn 10 to 12 gallons of fuel per minute so you don't need to light it twice. When you try to burn much more fuel than that it throws off the air fuel mixture and the cylinders get too wet because you can't get enough oxygen in to light it effectively even with 2 mags. With nitro it's a different story. It carry's it's own oxygen unlike alcohol, and it's slow burning. A-fuelers burn around 25 gallons a minute. They can do this because the nitro carry's it's own oxygen. Oxygen is what you need to light a fire. The more you have the hotter the fire. That's why you need 2 mags, it burns slow so you have to light it twice to get it burning properly. I'm sure you've seen that even twice isn't always enough because they still drop cylinders. If NHRA allowed it you might see 3 mags on nitro cars.

    [ December 16, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: ch3no2 ]
     
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  9. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    Marty, since you say nobody ever accused you of being smart, let me be the first. Obviously you have to be smart to finish 5th. Congratulations on a terrific season. I know you've been at this game for a long time and your success is well deserved. No disrespect meant with the "on kill" comment. Knowing that blown cars are at or near their full potential with the current rules means that running 20's in one must mean it's "on kill" I think that's why this class has problems with oil downs. Guys are trying to spin them too hard. 10000 rpm is a lot of strain on rods.
     
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  10. Mr Scary

    Mr Scary New Member

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    Will, when I suggested lowering the weight breaks for the Blown cars. I was referring to allowing bigger motors! 526 CI X 4.0 per cube is roughly 2,100 lbs! That would level the playing field over night! Not to mention the extra 13% overdrive
     
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  11. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Scary I don't think there is any extra OD in the class regardless of C.I.

    Marty, Scott and others, thanks for your replies. Makes sense. chono2, I know they all ran duals before, mags 3, 4, or 5's and msd 12's or 20's.

    I am betting that the teams that were outspoken about getting rules changes to slow down the A/Fuelers instead of stronger lobbying for allowing the blower and other Performance enhancers are regretting that decision now.
    That is the one mistake I see, from the blown guys, and you all have to admit it, no one wanted to spend money when in fact that happens whenever you want to go faster. You guys in my opinion took the wrong stance.

    Dean
     
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  12. Scott Nelson

    Scott Nelson New Member

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    Dean,

    What Mr Scary is alluding to, is the fact that SFI allows the OD to be greater for larger size motors, and less for smaller size motors. I cannot remember the cut off points, but it was something like 2.something for less than 450ci, 2.15 for 450ci to 500ci, and 2.25 for 500ci and above. I probably have the numbers incorrect, but you get the point. It has something to do with the rods coming out of the motor before the blower comes apart.

    I have asked about allowing us to run 2.25, like the TA/FC guys used to do, but at our current ci, and was told it would be a SFI nightmare. The only way we could get to 2.25 would be to go to the bigger motors, which is huge. Short deck blocks would be no good, cranks, rods, pistons, manifold, etc., etc., etc. I know that this option was looked into, and was determined that the performance increase would not be significant, especially considering the cost involved.

    I don't want to see a blower come apart and toss shrapnel all around. We will leave that type of activity to the noisy cars, like in Mission this year. [​IMG] But, I would not mind if they re-ran thier safety numbers and looked at allowing more OD.
     
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  13. jpcok

    jpcok Guest

    hey will,, tom called just this am and said the new flux inverter will ups tomorrow am her at the shop...........
     
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  14. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I remeber the OD allowances for bigger motors, but I don't think that is in the rules anymore is it? SFI does not determine the NHRA OD limit, NHRA does, correct
    Dean
     
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  15. Rapid Transit

    Rapid Transit New Member

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    jpcok Just remember... "I" have the patent for that flux inverter device. All payments are to be sent directly to me!!!
    Kim

    [ December 18, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Rapid Transit ]
     
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  16. Les Mellows

    Les Mellows New Member

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    Now the MSD 66 ! Thats the baby to play with , for a little off season testing. They are the next logical step in making H.P . If you can increase the fuel charge and maintain or increase the blower efficiency in conjunction with the legal head configuration this will make a difference. To my knowledge the 66 amp has not been stamped with the NHRA Good Housekeeping Approval yet , But I thought that was to deter the Top Fuel guys using it (132 amps- LoL) . Maybe if we asked nicely when Santa Compton has had a few he will let the Blown Alcohol cars use them ??
     
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  17. Mr Scary

    Mr Scary New Member

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    Les, are they legal in IHRA??
     
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  18. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    i want more air for Christmas!
     
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  19. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Tell me Will, why didn't the blown guys lobby for more air. I don't get it.
    Dean
     
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  20. Bob Holley

    Bob Holley New Member

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    Good question Dean
     
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