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Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by quick cut, May 30, 2011.
I checked the profile to see who it is, also, just like you did.
I have run Iskys for years and upgraded to ez roll. Got about 100 runs on and about half needed a rebuild. 400lbs/seat 9000rpm chevy.
For what my opinion is worth
Cost VS Quality
I think there are a bunch of good points presented here. I wish more guys were as brutally honest as Clint is. It would make life so much siimpler. Being politically correct means covering up the truth with so much BS that pretty soon it's all crap.
Now I also agree that price isn't the only way to make a decision on parts but I truly believe that some parts are over priced for the quality you get. I have ran Crane lifters, Comp lifters, Cam FX lifters and somehow managed to break all of them before 50 runs. Maybe I am unlucky or simply hard on my toys, either way it doesn't seem to make a difference how much I pay-they all break. I haven't ever used the Jesel lifters for one simple reason-Price.
Maybe Jesel only wants to deal with the top tier teams-those guys with a ton of money and wallets thicker than my head. But they are ignoring the one rule of business- no matter how good your product there is a point where you can price yourself right out of the market. Imagine how many sets of lifters they would sell if their price was comparable? Does anybody really think the Jesel lifters are three or four times better than Morels or Crane or CamFX. Their prices certainly are. Dave Germain
You answerd that yourself,
you broke all the others befour 50 runs 3 types of lifter so 3 motor repairs for something that was avoidable or at least possible to reduce the risk
Now tell us how much it cost to repair the motor each time that happend,
Still think Jessel are expensive?
I bet theres 150 runs in a set of jessel and yes i run them... one of my engines is a turbo motor NRE/BAE with inconell exhaust valves turning over 9500 rpm with some mad spring presure, the inconell EX valves are way heavier than the TI inlets, (The A fuel guys here will know that thats a prety big deal reving that hard with that valve) There is no other lifter id trust in this enviroment,
Im on my secont year with the lifters in the roots blown pro mod motor, as with most roots cars we have to rev the hell out of it, they are still as good as new
how about Maybe Jessels product is so superior thats the price it deserves, Maybe the extra processes that make it so superior cost a lot, there must be extra processes it diddnt get that good by magic
also prety much all of jessels products have this extra level of quality and price so why be surprised,
out of interest did anyone here break a jessel lifter??
my 2 pence....(yes im English)
With so many lifter horror stories i'd say the Jesels are probably worth the money for a max effort application. I run a low buck program(chevy) but if I know a part is problematic I will pay bucks to get the best there is available.
Jesel may have the lifter market covered but i've had plenty of BS out of their rocker stands. They are made from cold rolled, 1010 or some other form of $hit steel that has no business in a racing engine. After breaking a stand in two several years ago they offered a high dollar upgrade stand with a special fastener. I asked about welding all the stands together and they didn't recommend it. After a few hits, the new stands bent like a rainbow so I checked into the material and found that nobody makes a good steel stand for the application. A couple weeks later I see that jesel produced a 1 piece ultra high dollar stand that tied everything together but guess what the material was?
At that point, I lost all faith in Jesel and welded everything together with the exhaust stands still bent and adjusted lash accordingly. It's worked good since.
I'm pushing the design of the head to it's limits but if they would've acknowledged the problem I still would've thrown down the money for their product knowing it would be risky.
Point is...the name is not everything and you can spend big dollars without getting the best there is.
I easily have over 150 runs (3 seasons) on a set of Cam FX Lifters in Don Bausher's TAF, with ZERO problems. At the end of every season, they go to Chris to be checked, and come back with a clean bill of health. The only thing we replaced was a few link bars. I also run Cam FX rocker system and LOVE it. The geometry is perfect as possible and have had only 2 minor valve train issues in 3 years. (twice was an adjuster failure) I believe the performance gain from his rocker system was instrumental in us winning the Championship in 2009. Prior to running Cam FX lifters we had Cranes which we replaced (at a maximum) of 50 runs. We had the Cranes fail us twice in 2 years. Some will say a Drag Boat doesnt abuse a lifter like a TAFC. Yeah....right. It's like smokin the tires at the hit EVERY PASS! Clint may have a legit beef on his particular situation, I dont know and only he does. But what I can tell you is I dont dont believe in bashing someone in a public forum. But ...that's just me and my .02. Jim Lange
Please take it from me the Cam FX are junk. I alos had a set with about 2 runs on them break the axle shaft and take out a brand new cam, bend a valve, crack a piston, damage the chamber and take the end off of the push rod. It did this for no reason at all. I called jesel bit the bullet and have no looked back. You can hold the 2 lifters cam fx and jessel side by side and my god it is a so much better in ever respect.
I would alos like to mention I have run morel and crane lifters with no issue as well only had a problem with this bullshit cam fx lifters.
I bought a set of CamFX and one set didnt even have the roller shaft pinned. When I took it out to inspect the roller fell out and needles went everywhere. Also found metal burrs on edges. Very poor to no quality control from these guys.
In fact I was so dissapointed with the rubbish they sent me I sold them on ebay before I even used them. Thats how worried I was they would damage my engine.
Crower Maximus and Endromax
Crower makes some of the nicest lifters out there, we have been running them in our car for the last 4 years and have had nothing but great things to say about them. We havent been easy on them either, had some spring problems, missed shifts and issues like that that hurt lifters. WE have NEVER been let down by them. The Maximus is there conventional needle bearing roller and the Endromax is there new needless system.
The price seems more than right to me compared to the competion and they dont sacrifice quality to keep the price fair.
iv first hand seen a bunch of crower lifter failiers early 2009 that destroyed a lot of motors around the world,
maybe a bad batch and generaly i think the crower name is a good name
but i wouldnt touch their lifter based on personal experience,
lifters are one of the most abused parts of your whole engine,
iv seen the results or a spintron test courtesy of NRE and now i realize exactly how hard their life is...thrown off the top of the lobe and not even hitting the down ramp but just smashing into the base circle with massive presures involved when you get some valve float which everyone does weather you know it or not.......
i have put in used Jessel when i have boxes of new crane,
Do you know what Crowers you were using there where a bunch of people selling the severe duty lifter that was not meant for our type of operation being sold at that time, The lifters we were using and still are werent available then to the public.
You can break anything in this sport, a close friend and competitor of our has broken jesels also. They are a killer lifter and take a ton of abuse not bashing them at all just saying anything can broken.
I used to run Crane Ultimate lifters, broke one last season after 14 passes, $15,000.00 in destroyed pieces including block. Went to a billet block this season and Jessel keyway lifters, very expensive but I belive cheaper in the long run. Only time will tell.
X-100, I agree and applaud you for calling it the way it is without worrying about tip toeing around a pussey, It is what it is.
Some people have had actual luck getting lifters from Cam FX?
I order a set back in the middle of November and was told it would take 2 weeks to get them. It's been 3 months now and still nothing. First the lifters were still at heat treaters, then the cross links weren't finished yet. Now it's been "you'll have them next week" for a month! The customer service sucks, plain and simple! If they aren't ready Chris then just say so! I'll wait till Tuesday, but plan on filing a dispute with my credit card (which he sure didn't hesitate to charge).
You have been more than fair with waiting, now that you've read this thread, you probably realize that you are waiting for crappy lifters. Do yourself a favor and cancel the transaction with your cc company and order some Morels, or some Crowers, or some Iskys, or some Jessels. My personal experience is with Morels and has been all good. no failures, put 50 runs on them. I have just sent in four sets for rebuild and reuse. We will see how that works.
Everyone please send all of your "questionable" lifters to
2080 McDaniel Drive
Carrollton Texas 75006
Racing season is just around the corner and daddy needs some spares....lol
So, is there two different companies that sound the same ?
For what its worth
I have always had very good luck with Crane
I believe as long as your ramp angles on your cam are decent
And you stay after your valve springs
And you inspect them like bearings
You can’t just run till failure and say the lifters are junk…
Ding ding, I think there may be some decent points here.