Top Alcohol/Nostalgia version of ADRL

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. vamcaptain

    vamcaptain Member

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    Happy Thoughts

    Will, you are correct on some points here but I have some to add. The big reason that the ADRL is successful has to do with artful and very well organized promotion...the one thing that many tracks aren't willing to do these days. When you look back at the history of racing (any type) the sanctioning body was the one that organized the promotions and it worked well. Smaller tracks simply don't have the revenue nor the management to do organized promotion. I am certain that Kenny takes most, if not all, of his ideas from P.T. Barnum!


    And therein lies the real rub...cost! I work with a group of racers now and if you want you can see the new website (not yet complete!) at www.dcoutlaws.us You will see that we run on a 6.40 index...YES I know it isn't a true heads-up but consider the huge cost increases in the NHRA and ADRL! Everyone now has to have the latest heads, blocks, blowers, chassis, etc. I wonder how much money it takes now to field a competitive pro-mod or even a 10.5? I know that even Billy Glidden is running on a tight budget all the time but his resourcefulness makes up for it. If you want to keep costs down I think you need to consider how we (DC Outlaws) race on an index until the final round. It has been successful for us for a few years. In this way you can run used stuff and you really just need consistency.

    I don't completely agree with this. It depends on your definition of "outlaw". I think there are a few cars sitting in garages parked due to the economy and the rising cost of racing.

    It really comes down to promoting the organization and individual events like they are the last ones on the earth. Kenny is a visionary promoter and although his model works for him it won't necessarily work for another organization. Sponsors are there if you approach them with the goal of helping them move product or create brand awareness through an "experience" and not just signage....we just have to go out and find them!

    Agreed! What do you think about an outlaw group going back to the old "Pro Comp" days where you had Dragsters, Funny Cars and Altereds racing each other? With an index you could do it. An index also means you don't have to exclude screw blowers. I think we have a good mix of screw, high helix and nitrous cars now.

    Thanks for the posing the question. it is an interesting discussion.

    Best,

    Mike
     
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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    agree disagree

    Thanks for the response and support.

    Any way you want to slice it, index racing isn't true heads up, first guy to the finish line racing, and I have yet to see a race headlined by an index class bring enough crowd to justify much payout. A fast index class might do well as a good filler, but not a big headliner. It's like if you're buddy says he's taking you to the best steak joint in town, then you realize he's pulling in the golden corral.

    When I say outlaw, there's not any TAD/TAFC's out there with a C blower on them. There are maybe a few A/FD's out there that have played with higher nitro % for the IHRA deal, or maybe an old AFD from a few years back laying around, but even most of the guys who have ran the IHRA deal haven't put clutch management and other 'outlaw' type items.

    Since there aren't many existing cars out there with 'outlaw' configurations, outlaw being not within current NHRA rules, racers would have to build something new to be 'outlaw'. Considering I haven't got much support from current NHRA alcohol racers, it's hard to believe that I would get more to go 'outlaw'. IF you did have a series and outlaw rules as soon as a few guys get C blowers, the guy still chasing the NHRA deal won't want to come because he can't run with the guy with the C.

    An Outlaw Pro Comp style class is interesting, but I doubt it would ever get off the ground. It would have to have rules to keep combos competitive. With multiple combinations you're always going to have more unhappy people than happy.

    Another problem with index racing is inevitably you're going to have people start driving the stripe, especially as the stakes to win go up. I'm not a fan of index racing at 8.90 because the dump becomes an effective move, albeit dangerous. The harder you dump, the more effective the move.

    From a fan standpoint, even the most uneducated man or woman in the stands knows the first guy to the finish line is supposed to win. That's drag racing's most basic premise, or racing in general. You don't see golfers with handicaps on TV...

    Thanks for the interest. Who knows something may come of this.
     
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  3. FEDowner

    FEDowner Member

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    The index classes in Nostalgia racing cannot have electronics, so they are closer to heads up. They also have a 7.60 & 7.0 Pro.
     
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  4. blown375

    blown375 New Member

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    An index is just a bracket race with a predetermined dial-in no matter how you slice it !
     
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  5. Div5Fan

    Div5Fan New Member

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    Will,

    Why not try one Dragstock-type exhibition event in 2011 or 2012 to see if the model works and gets support from racers and spectators?

    Try to field reasonable purses for the original six classes you mentioned- TAD, TAFC, Nostalgia TF and FC, and Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. Try to use a venue that has a proven record of community support in a location that is likely to have a good racer turnout. If the race is a success, racers around the country will be excited and the ball will be rolling. If it's not as successful as you'd like, at least you only committed to one race and the good venue location surely lended at least semi-decent car and spectator counts to cut down on losses.

    Keep that 8-race plan on hold; shoot for a Dragstock-style/one event-only deal first. I bet you'll receive more support that way.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  6. BLOWN INCOME

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    As a promoter it would be easier to sell a 32 car n/fc field then a 8 car to the public...
    Being most of the fuel n/fc fields are fulling short on the car count ( for whatever reason)...Let the alcohol n/fc run bigger blowers to compete with the fuel n/fc and you would get your full fields ,if not a 32 car field....LOOK WHAT DENNIS DID AT THE N/FC RACE AT THE MARION RACE !!! Just think what it would be like at a bigger nicer track (INDY,NORWALK,CHARLOTTE,MAPLE GROVE,ECT.)...I don't feel a 16 car or 32 car is out of the question,even add the blown altereds in and you got a show...Heads up ,no screws......
     
    #46
  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    flavors

    Santo,

    There's a reason why Baskin Robbins has 32 flavors...

    I'm a Blue Bell kind of guy myself, but that and mexican food is why I can't fit in my firesuit anymore....but that's another point ...lol

    One of the things I've gotten from the NFC crowd is to keep the runs down. 32 car field won't accomplish that.

    The nice thing is you can get an 8 car field in fairly quick, which is crucial for entertainment.
     
    #47
  8. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    everybody pays

    as a certain track owner from sacramento told me..........EVERYBODY PAYS, THEY PAY TO GET IN, AND PAY TO RACE.............. OR FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO RACE!!!!!!!!!!! thats the mentality these mafia dirtbags have towards racers. why would they let anybody try to make money including themselves with a new style of racing if they are willing to kick a whole association out of a signed contract a day before the race to stranglehold money out of the racers? i believe its called extorsion, but thats just my take. what would you do if this happened? buckle to these excrements of humans or cancel and find someplace else to race? and what if they call in the local scabs to run instead of you? maybe the same guys that were going to run with your race? like some posts have said, there are always guys that will run for peanuts, and cross lines just for there own benefit, so how to do you run a new race format with these things happening? and just for the record it wasnt just sacrament, but another track did the same crap this year too. they got the best of both worlds and dont have to let the racers make money to help support their racing, because they dont have to. i would luv to run my fc for a whole season without a track pulling a stunt like this, but hasnt happened the last 3 years!!!!!!!!!
     
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  9. michael hall

    michael hall New Member

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    Back East

    Yes, as a part owner/driver of a blown alky 23T, I'd love for once to finally have organized races here on the east coast, and not just Florida or Maine!! There are several local blown alky f/c's, and altereds here that would like the chance to run a a big race, to try and qualify then actually compete for money and going rounds instead of just as a "side show". We spend our money and time just as the mid west and left coast racers do, so lets give us a chance to make some news too!!
     
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  10. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Will's Dreams

    Hey Will, I like your dream. Sign me up, we'll be there. But there is one requirement for my team - NO INDEX. We have a deal up here that is called NWBBFC. Sort of a roots blowered nostalgia alcohol funny car group. Sounded like fun right up to the the point when they mentioned a 6.90 index. I asked my wife (half owner of my deal) and her exact reply was "F@&K NO!!. She has had all the first guy to the finish line loses deal when we ran S/C that she could stand. She told me that even if we can only afford to go racing once a year we will not be bracket racing a funny car. I knew there was a reason I married that woman. Dave Germain www.davegermainmotorsports.com
     
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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  11. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    I agree, no index PERIOD!

    However, I don't see a good way to mix different types of cars in the same class.

    Nostalgia Top Fuel doesn't quite equal Modern A/Fuel as one example.

    However it would seem like Alky Funnies and Altereds might be a good match?
    Nostalgia A/Fuel might also fit into that class quite well.

    If the goal is to put together a series, why not do 3-4 classes with 8 car fields?
    Some racers might allow bigger fields depending on car count or eliminate a class where there isn't the interest.

    I understand why IHRA has done what they've done but I don't like it. Their closed field is a joke. Give it one more year at best.

    Bob
     
    #51
  12. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    race

    If its anything I'm involved with, it will be an actual race. 8 car open qualified show.
     
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  13. nitrodude

    nitrodude Nostalgia Top Fuel

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    Open Qualified ???

    And The rules are ?????

    I Don't Propose " INDEX " racing , However an "Open" race with good money will attract cars with far more performance than non-pro racers .

    I still suggest a "CAP" , a tenth or thereabouts Under the 'norm' , or You will have "ringers" blowing the field away

    You have Your work cut out for you , trying to provide a race for a conglomoration of classes !
     
    #53
  14. rognelson777

    rognelson777 New Member

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    good idea, keep heads up only

    my biggest thing is stop worrying about fillers. IF you do not have any on track racing going on, it has to be all out heads up racing. Being a 25 year member of nhra, I asked some 18 to 35 year olds why they went to shakedown at etown. They said it was because it is allheads up racing all out. no throttle stops no handicaps. classes are adjusted by tire size, power adders, weight.

    all the spectator has to worry about is who gets to the finish line 1st, not why did he lose when he ran faster than the other guy. also, my biggest gripe, when i have to explain to someone why the car in a heads up unlimited class loses with a faster time, make the timers start when the green comes on. current way of timing a race was established when they had flag starts.

    what other form of heads up racing can a winner have a slower time than the loser?

    Modern electronics can be easily changed to fix this easily, you can still give drivers reaction times for bragging rights.
     
    #54
  15. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    index or heads up

    so you want to be a macho man and run heads up? the guy who shows up with the psi on his car runs a 5.40, now what? now you gotta chuck that real nice blower on racejunk for 2k, and go buy a psi just like bubba has, to run with him, and once again, its tafc all over again. the rich man will dominate, and the rest can suck alky fumes. the index racing, is the only way to level the field for the small guy, (which is what we are talking about) so a series not called nhra tafc can be run,or started up. everybody complains about the cost of tafc, rightfully so, its rediculous. bracket racing, whether its on a 7.0, 6.80, 6.30 or whatever can be just as difficult as running all out, except being easier on parts,(again budget and saving money). im the first to say watching super comp wants to make me leave the stands and go pee, but the fast brackets with funny cars or pro comp style altereds is good for the fans to watch and may give us something to do with our cars instead of saving up another year for the next knee jerk safety updates or trick of the week to stay competetive. its the same old game again, the rich shall race whatever they want, and the rest of us find something fun to do, have a good time, and be realistic to ourselves what we want to do in racing. everybody wants to be john force, unfortunately, i cant even buy the jag he drives, let alone the rest. we just started racing in a new fuel altered series that is first to the finish. im waiting to see how long the record lasts, and how long we will be able to run there. the first guy that runs a 5 second et, im done and out of there. does anybody get this? dan call san diego, owner/operator of a single income completely independently bought and built with no sponsors help alchohol funny car/fuel altered wannabe/526 fontana/3 sp lenco/etc/owner built tow rig and owner built trailer. i am cheap!
     
    #55
  16. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Will,

    Well this is disheartening. I'm not sure where the idea came from that this event is organized with the intention of giving EVERYONE with a supercharger a place to race but its a lost topic right now. I'm just venturing a guess but the reason you don't have "real hitters" jazzed up about this is because they already have to run 16 races a year to compete in the points. (alky guys anyway, nostalgia isn't as demanding) If I didn't have to work on someone elses car on weekends to make the $$ to run my car and instead i could go run my car at your shows and make enough to go run the big show (NHRA nationals) I'd be there for sure.
     
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  17. vamcaptain

    vamcaptain Member

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    Dan, you understand what I am saying - if you run without some sort of index or the like it indeed becomes a war of money. What fun is that? Let the NHRA keep that format for their series. I would love to see a pure heads-up like Will is describing but I don't know how it would be accomplished without having to have the most expensive equipment all the time. Unless you go to sealed engines and weight checks I just don't see how it could be sustainable.

    My $.02
     
    #57
  18. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    Maybe an opportunity?

    Good Guys has canceled any kind of racing for 2011
    I'm currently trying to find a formal announcement of some kind.
    Hard to believe after seeing the crowd last week at Bowling Green.
    Norwalk and Indy have never had much of a spectator crowd.
    However, the rumor doesn't actually surprise me as Top Fuel and many others were short fields at BG.

    Indy show is moving to the brick yard
    Bowling Green is moving to Kentucky Speedway.
    Norwalk is outright canceled but rumor has it that Norwalk will hold it's own deal

    All three might be open to holding a race/cruise in to compete with Good Guys

    Bob
     
    #58
  19. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    me likey

    i do like the idea of index up till the final round. then first to the end wins. that is a very interesting concept. that would surely be a good selling point to the tracks. ill bring my c blower with me just for that special moment! good idea:cool: the mixing of funny cars and altereds as well as rails would be a good show ! now you should consider what group of racer you want in the series....................
    1) pros only, got bank, probably run 5.40-5.70s
    2) guys going broke trying to run tafc. on the edge of quitting. probably run 5.90-6.10s
    3)done quit tafc, car run 2x a year maybe. probably runs 6.70-6.30s, stuck in the middle, gotta spend way too much to go tafc, too proud to go bracket racing
    4)fast fc, goes 6.90-7.50, nice reliable car, fast brackets, not interested in tafc
    5) outdates super comp cars with a blower, ran 8.5 in 1982, runs the car at the swap meet, and has a 100k price tag on it. usually very unsafe, outdated, and very rusty
     
    #59
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  20. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    The number and variety of cars that run in the 6.0 to 6.30 range is huge.

    Then consider how many might consider de-tuning their cars to meet that range?

    Then a second tier of cars for 6.30 to 6.80's

    Just a thought.
     
    #60

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