steel rods yes or no?

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by hotrodharlkey, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. crashly

    crashly Member

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    steel rods

    different sort of forced induction..:cool:
    twin turbo sbc, steel rods , mid 6's in 1900 lb altered
    as said before, all in the tune up, and design of the engine

    ash



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZsoHj_l0-U
     
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  2. hotrodharlkey

    hotrodharlkey New Member

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    OK;;;i'm seeing it's about a 50-50 split between steel and aluminum;;this may change it all;;on my situation

    [1]my first blown alcohol engine
    [2]i'd be happy with car running low 8's or high 7's
    [3]car weight is in 2800lb range and will only certify to 7;50 sec. so can't push engine any faster then that
    [4]spud set me up with a very safe/easy tune-up to start out with and no plains changing due to [2]and[3]
    [5]going to stay low on timing in 32 to 34 on timing
    [6]my rpm range seeing my cam not that big i'm thinking is 7000 to 7500rpm range
    [7]taking everything above as a guide line back to org quest//steel or aluminum?

    not wanting to get anyone mad on here..everyone has made very strong points on way they run what they run..

    now it brings up another quest;;
    [1]on the steel rods that some are running..are you talking 4340 "H" steel rod [that i have] or are we talking the billet rods?
    [2]on the aluminum rods that some are saying i should run;;i've been on line looking and reading all about everyones rods[exp. r&r--bem--grp and others]have notice they all have different series[exp. 1000 5000 and so on]so what series of are you telling me i need;;lets say i go with the GRP'S that i'm leaning toward..what one of the GRP'S model do i need to use;;
     
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  3. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    I was talking billet rods. Crower, Carrillo, Oliver. You may be able to get by with cheap h beams like Eagle, but not for long. That's for sure.
    Alum.. no ideas on series.
    Good luck. There are many ways to skin a cat.
    Wags
     
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  4. crashly

    crashly Member

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    steel rods ,
    4340 H beams in carrillo and scat brands
    I beams are 4340 Oliver
     
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  5. blown375

    blown375 New Member

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    R&R makes an Excellent rod ! I also had great luck with Fowlers billet aluminum rod.

    If it throws your steel rods out the side or cracks the crank are you going to post it on here ???? ;)
     
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  6. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    I will. Been running steel rods since I been racing. (99) Blown gas/ alcohol 8.0 boat. 0 rods have exited the block, 0 cracked cranks. Of course that goes with 0 bearing failures.
    Wags
     
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  7. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    Like I said... If you are building an engine planning on a rod getting tossed stick to something else.
    Wags
     
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  8. blown375

    blown375 New Member

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    I think you are comparing apples to oranges
    what distance is your boat covering in your 8 seconds ?
    Do you think that a prop spinning in the water is going to shock the driveline and load the engine as hard as his "low 8 or high 7second" 2800lb car is going too ?
     
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  9. stefan

    stefan New Member

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    This subject keeps coming up from time to time; When do you need alurods? I was thinking, if an alurod is going to act as a shockabsorber, then you should be able to measure some sort of movement in that rod if you put preasure on it, and a steel rod would move much less.
    If so, anyone know what the numbers would look like if you would do such a test?
     
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  10. craig moss

    craig moss Member

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    rods


    I think we as boat people get away with it due to the fact we arn't hammering the crank and rods as hard.Due to prop slip ect. Our engines dont get pulled down as hard as a car when its shifted.Ive been running Oliver heavy weight rods for years. We burn enough fuel to make around 2300 hp but the blower eats up a bunch of that power at 55+ OD. Ive never had bearing problems.I replace them every winter. WE dont run it on the edge. just my 2 cent.
     
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  11. secondwindracing

    secondwindracing top alcohol

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    Stefan....to answer your question that is why you measure bearings and you use go no go on your rod bolts and use your rod bolt stretch guage...

    NEWS FLASH...all TA/D and T/F teams will be using steel rods this year......( NOT )
    a steel rod on my new $3500 crank...I don't think so...Dave
     
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  12. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    Very fair question.
    8.0 150+ ish mph 1/4 mile.
    6.0 150+ ish mph. 1000'
    Man, guys always po poo how hard a prop can hook until they get in one. A real prop with enough gear will try to stop that crank just like your slicks. We also have cavitation which loads and unloads stuff. Pretty hard on stuff.
    I honestly think a prop would be harder on drivetrain than a converter car. Maybe not.
    So, apples to oranges... yes, absolutely.
    Valid info... maybe, maybe not.
    Wags
     
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  13. 3-D

    3-D Member

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    if you are T/D & bracket racing with 20 lbs of boost and not running TAD trying to stretch everything out of the combination, an Oliver type rod would probably be a good investment.
    when we put 200 + passes a year on our motors in the bracket racing circle, an aluminum rod has it's pitfalls (ie replacement). They can probably go the 200 passes at the power level listed above, but they still need to be replaced where the steel rod can be reused. The other factor with aluminum rods is the heat cycle life of aluminum vs steel. It would seem to me that the steel rod will be less affected, and will be more forgiving with consistancy between temps when round-robining during a drag race.
    it does not matter which rod breaks, it is going to tear a lot of stuff up. That should not even come into consideration.
    Just my .02
     
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  14. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    Hmm.. I did not think the op was going TA/D or fuel racing. I guess I misinterpreted what he said. Oh, wait... to quote you (NOT)
    Wags

    Not everyone needs fuel parts. Not everyone is TA racing. Not everyone has unlimited budgets. Applications and parts required vary.
     
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  15. WANNABE

    WANNABE New Member

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    I learned quite a bit when I was speaking to Mike Strasburg of B&J transmissions about big time transmissions in a drag boat. He said that drag boats chewed up transmissions so much quicker and so much harder - and in weird ways - than the meanest and baddest of drag cars. From what he showed me and what I have seen since then, I have realized that water is not easy on parts. Especially drivelines and crankshafts.
    Don't get too easily caught in the assumption that the water is light on parts.
     
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  16. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    Water does not compress. That is where everyone gets lost. I have hammered inner sprags to death with a "loose" prop. You will see a sprag failure ever couple of races in a boat. It is not a sprag issue per se'. Lube couplers all you want. They can transfer metal pretty easy.
    Boat guys are only pansies until you get in the driver seat of one. LOL
    Wags
     
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  17. blown375

    blown375 New Member

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    You are correct that water doesn't compress but it is pretty easy to slide on it and slice a hole in it.
    I have never seen anybody use an ore to get around the racetrack or barefoot parking lot skiing and every time I have heard of anybody doing the high-dive into the interstate it didn't work out so well!

    Ever experience water shake in your boat ?

    I know Ive had tire shake hard enough to break a sprag , crank hub and the throttle at the same time. But.... thats on that compressible asphalt.
     
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  18. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    WTF?
    The engine does not know what it is in/ or on. I think the question was regarding loads placed on an engine... specifically the rods.
    Have you been drinking? Maybe you should get off of the hot asphalt and get a cool drink of water. Seems your thinking is a little goofy. (I'm just bustin your balls... laugh)
    LOL
    Wags
     
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  19. high psi racing

    high psi racing New Member

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    i'm in the same boat.lol oliver told me that the billet rods like R&R dont have no give to them either.jim
     
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  20. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    R&R rods

    I would have to argue that fact because i have a R&R rod that when broke a head and filled #2 up with water, it bent farther than any rod I have ever seen with out breaking, I feel that R&R rods saved my motor and will be the only rod I ever run after seeing what they can take,, Thanks, Anthony
     
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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011

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