spray bar

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by bill, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Mike,
    Here are all the channels the ComSync EFI box records, every important channel is recorded every cylinder, all channels are recorded at least once every 8 cylinders most are more frequent than that. We usually put the shock sensor(s) on one or all of the 4 spare channels. Currently there are 96 channels of data. There are a few more that could be added if necessary. I have talked with Shannon Davis and we am in the process of adding his profiler to the timing control plus where legal we have some options also. Here is the list. The box has 128megs of ram storage plus another 256megs of flash that it save all the data from each run after the engine has stopped running. We have been doing this for 33 years now and this is our 5th generation of EFI
    Blake

    RPM
    Throttle
    Ignition Timing
    MAP
    Fuel LBS (port injectors)
    Auxiliary Fuel LBS (Hat injectors)
    Total Eectronic fuel LBS/hr (hat + port)
    Mechanical Fuel LBS (not really used anymore)
    Fuel Pressure
    Oil Pressure
    EGT Cylinder 1
    EGT Cylinder 2
    EGT Cylinder 3
    EGT Cylinder 4
    EGT Cylinder 5
    EGT Cylinder 6
    EGT Cylinder 7
    EGT Cylinder 8
    EGT Cylinder 9 or MAT
    EGT Cylinder 10 or Engine temp
    EGT Cylinder 11 or Turbo inlet Right
    EGT Cylinder 12 or Turbo inlet Left
    EGT Average
    EGT Correction amount for each cylinder (current cylinder)
    O2 Cylinder 1
    O2 Cylinder 2
    O2 Cylinder 3
    O2 Cylinder 4
    O2 Cylinder 5
    O2 Cylinder 6
    O2 Cylinder 7
    O2 Cylinder 8
    O2 Average
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 1
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 2
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 3
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 4
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 5
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 6
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 7
    O2 Correct Factor Cylinder 8
    O2 Correct Factor Average
    Drive Shaft RPM
    Drive Shaft Slip
    Input Shaft RPM
    Input Shaft Slip
    Tubro Tach Right
    Turbo Tach Left
    Wheel Speed
    Fuel Flow A
    Fuel Flow B
    Battery Voltage
    O2 Sensors Voltage
    MAT
    Engine Temperature
    Oil Temperature
    Transmission Temperature
    Air Temperature
    Air Temperature 2
    Barometric Pressure
    Pressure Sensor Channel #1
    Pressure Sensor Channel #2
    Pressure Sensor Channel #3
    Pressure Sensor Channel #4
    Pressure Sensor Channel #5
    G-meter X reading
    G-meter Y reading
    G-meter Z reading
    Trans Break
    2nd gear
    3rd gear
    4th gear
    5th gear
    Retarded timing amount
    Fuel Injector Timing
    Base Fuel Correction Factor (from MAT and Baro)
    Throttle #2
    Throttle #3
    Spare Analog Channel #1
    Spare Analog Channel #2
    Spare Analog Channel #3
    Spare Analog Channel #4
    Cold Junction Temp Left
    Cold Junction Temp Right
    Cold Junction Temp Spare
    Computer Temperature
    Nitrous Stage engaged (1 to 8)
     
    #81
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  2. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    Ok, that's good. Thanks.
     
    #82
  3. Mike Janis Jr.

    Mike Janis Jr. New Member

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    Bill it depends how you look at it....our hats are $5,995 with our deal all built in..........the other guys are buying carbon hats for $3,600-$4,200, then adding a $3,000-$3,500 spray bar to it, which then puts that price to $6,600- to over $7,000.
     
    #83
  4. Mike Janis Jr.

    Mike Janis Jr. New Member

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    Again, everyone is doing a great job in their respected categories........All I can give you is the feedback from our personal dyno and info from customers who have personally dynoed our hat. Our ALL BILLET MJ DRAGON SLAYER 2 HOLE HAT showed 110-115 HP better on our dyno over a carbon fiber deal.........I have a customer who dynoed and has seen over 130 HP better......so in a nutshell our data has been backed up from others.....it is our own deal, our design which we modeled in-house, our nozzles, etc. We also install our deal inside carbon fiber or aluminum hats.....the cost to do that is $2,000-$2,200. If anyone has any questions and is interested in a hat, supercharger or any service, please feel free to reach out. We have been in business almost 60 years and our customer service is very important to us. 716-628-2591 mikejanis1065@gmail.com
    #AmericanMadeHorsepower #GotBoost #MikeJanisSuperchargers
     
    #84
  5. blowntuner

    blowntuner New Member

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    The spray bar is making a fog injected liquid in the hat but if you change from one big port nozzle to 2 smaller nozzle with the same area as the big nozzle has there will be a finner injection that create the same effect as the spray bar in the hat?Is the nozzle body shape and lenght effecting how the fuel will be atomize in the port?
     
    #85
  6. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    Not really because the spray bar is as far to the opening as it can get to allow enough time to cool the incoming air. If you use the standard nozzles in the hat then there is not enough time to cool the incoming air. This was explained on page one of this post by DMPE's Darren Mayer. You are not worried about atomization going into the top of the mix master because it re atomizes when it comes out the bottom of the blower.
     
    #86
  7. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    #87
  8. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Yes. Having built protype EFI injectors in the past, my hat is off to those guys. I especially like their new "4" series with up to 1500 pph (about 4gpm meth) capacity per injector.

    EFI injectors certainly give fine scaleability (turndown ratio) versus MFI injectors controlled MFI fashion.

    If you want to use them for reasonable evaporative cooling though (ie: spray bar effect). You still gotta get them well upstream and give adequate residence time for the meth/air to do their thing. If that nice dense cone of fuel splats against a surface before evaporating, then no gain.

    I like the design feature which allows the injector to be screwed into a head or surface. I am on the fence about a deficated screw-on line per injector inlet though. If the injectors can be aligned in a linear fashion I still like the common rail approach.
     
    #88
  9. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    With some of the fires I've seen on boosted efi cars due to o ring failures, I welcome the addition of the threaded base and -4 inlet
     
    #89
  10. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Then someone either: 1) didn't machine things proper, or. 2) didn't build in enough support for while under pressure. O-rings when done right can withstand massive pressures, reliably.
     
    #90
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  11. Blake

    Blake Member

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    The new phone book is here! The new phone book is here! Well it feels like that, WWW.COMSYNCRACING.COM is now live on the web. There is still work to do but, you can get some ideas on what we have done and what is possible. Please take a look and let us know if you can think of any improvements that can be made to the website.

    I like what Atomizer injectors is doing and TOL is right the further upstream the better. One problem with the mix master is that some of the unevaporated fuel tends to get thrown onto the walls of the plenum as it comes out the bottom and that is not ideal.
    Thanks,
    Blake
     
    #91
  12. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Comsync EFI congratulates Mike Coughlin for his win in Top Dragster at NHRA winter nationals in Pomona today.
    Blake
     
    #92
  13. Outlaw68

    Outlaw68 Member

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    Running a roots blower in the drag radial world, I have been saying forever how much I wish I had the budget to burn up my stuff to get a handle on the EFI stuff because of the awesome tunability it would give us on the small tire. I have been looking into the Spray bar deal but want to test our new car and new hemi first. This thread has been a great read and is why I lurk here as much as I do... I have to get a fuel pump done and have been looking at the rage stuff pretty hard.
     
    #93
  14. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Outlaw68,
    That is why we developed the EGT safeties, it makes it almost impossible to burn a piston. There is nothing we can do to protect a cylinder when you get a lot of oil past the rings. That is a tough one to try to detect. You can set the safeties to start adding fuel at whatever temperature you want and at what rate to add more then above that set a temperature that the ECU shuts off that cylinder and only that cylinder. The amount of fuel added by the safeties is recorded in the data for each cylinder and each cylinder firing. There is a cylinder spread table that you can take that data and richen or lean out each individual cylinder. You can pull time out in the back half of the run or anywhere in the run. We will be there to help you tune your motor also. The ComSync EFI is by far the easiest on parts that you will come across, even MFI. Having 8 wideband O2 to record each cylinder firing also helps reduce the number of passes required to tune your motor. This system is designed by racers for racers not engineers, everything is in inhg and Lbs/hr. You can convert it to metric with a mouse click if you are more comfortable that way. The only thing that you will have to adjust to is boost. I show you true boost number but, boost is relative to barometric pressure and an EFI fuel table can not deal with that, it must be in absolute. 2.036 inhg per pound of boost at sea level. You will get used to it after about 5 or 6 races if not sooner then almost everybody likes it better because it makes since and then makes it easier to tune if you need to or want to make changes. Most people don't touch it once they get it dialed in the ECU compensates for altitude changes and temp if you have a MAT sensor. Water grains is a different story, if you are picky you will need to make a slight adjustment for water grains but, most people don't.
    This is getting long,
    Blake

    http://www.teamjegs.com/content/jeg...oughlin-begins-2017-season-visit-victory-lane
     
    #94
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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  15. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    Just got my hat back and wow!!!! It's artwork inside there. They did An amazing job with the spray bar and re flowing the top of the fuel system. Can't wait to try it out
     
    #95
  16. Mike Janis

    Mike Janis Member

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    Thank you very much Jason. We take great pride in our work at Mike Janis Superchargers / Jan-Cen Racing Engines. I told you it wasn't a normal "spray bar" deal !! You will be very happy. #MikeJanisSuperchargers #AmericanMadeHorsepower #GotBoost
     
    #96
  17. Policy Peddler

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    You guys are pretty much talking way past me, I have a couple of comments, I am sorry if they are stupid.
    Sassy racing engines has been making a two system MFI for 30+ yrs. 2 pumps 2 barrel valves and .... the tractor pullers have been using.
    Talking about fuel going in up stream and smaller nozzles. What would happen on aluminum or Magnesium Veney or BU injector if you put extra nozzles around the intake just behind the butter flies all the way around?
     
    #97

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