Should 2 Steps Be allowed in TAD/TAFC - Driver's Poll

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Mar 3, 2011.

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Should 2 steps be allowed in TAD/TAFC?- DRIVERS ONLY!

  1. Yes

    15.2%
  2. No

    82.3%
  3. Undecided or Don't Care either way

    2.5%
  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    There's a lot of discussion behind the scenes whether 2 steps/leaving at WOT should be allowed in the alcohol classes.

    There's no doubt it takes a lot of driver out of the equation. Talking with the Pro Mod guys, the main advantage is it makes it quite a bit easier to cut a light. It also takes an inconsistent driver and makes them perfect every time. A lot of appeal for competitors in TAD/TAFC is the driver has a big role in the performance of the car.

    So, I'm asking drivers to speak up and voice their opinion. All of us need to know from NHRA if this is the new future of the class or if we can nip this in the bud so to speak.
     
    #1
  2. bryanbrown

    bryanbrown Member

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    You're fighting a losing battle. I don't like two steps, but now that they're legal, they're not going away
     
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  3. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Two steps

    I am against the idea of the two steps. There are guys out here racing who have so much money that it is tough to beat them based purely on the performance of the car. They can afford to put it on the ragged edge and so what if they kick the rods out. I don't have that kind of money so possibly being a better driver might be all the advantage that I might have. I would hate having that one possibility taken away from me. I am not saying that I am a better driver than anybody else but maybe Mr Manzo might be having an off day? Dave Germain
     
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  4. danny

    danny compet elimin

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    Should-2-Steps-Be-allowed-in-TAD/TAFC

    NO NO AND NO
    danny
     
    #4
  5. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    For a torque converter car absolutely they should be allowed, we don't have the luxury of raising the RPM's prior to staging the car. On a clutch car, I don't really care, I'm going to run my race just the same.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #34
     
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  6. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    No !

    One of the best things about the alky classes has been the driver is still a major part of the equation. I am against anything that lessens that, therefore I am against 2 steps or any other device that does what a good alky driver can do. This is almost as bad as when a few who couldn't shift there own cars wanted the automatic shifters.

    As always, these are just my opinions.
    Marty Thacker
    TA/D 7
     
    #6
  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    converter car

    I know the converter deal is a bit different, but to be fair I personally drove a Lencodrive FC for 2.5 years without a two step. The two stage pedal is not as consistent as a 2 step, but neither is swapping feet with a clutch vs a two step.

    The two step itself wasn't legal until late 2007 or 2008. They legalized the 8973 in 2007, but two steps were still illegal. Then they figured out it's kind of hard to have two steps outlawed when it's built into the 8973, so I guess that's what made them drop that rule. Until last year you could not have electronically controlled fuel solenoids. That really opened the door to have the same set up the Pro Mods have with a bleed off solenoid on the two step circuit.

    I think there are more drivers out there than you think that have been using a two step as a staging aid rather than leave at WOT on the two step.

    There's a lot of talk about getting them thrown out. As a racer, I'm behind that. As a tuner, I need to know from NHRA either they are considering throwing it out or this is the new deal. I need to get on board this deal if it is permanent.
     
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  8. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    I still use the dual stage pedal, I only have the 2 step on there to make sure it stays where we want it (it has a tendency to change with fuel system changes/timing changes etc.). We cannot check it every round as that is bad on the converter/heats the fluid WAY too much. Our blades are only open a very very small amount, we ran almost the entire first half of the season last year without it and saw no difference when we ran it on the car....just as you said makes things more consistent. It doesn't make my job any easier with a converter. I still have to slam my heel down the instant my competitor lights his 2nd bulb. If they take it away, no sweat, I just don't think it should be a point of focus as there are much bigger issues to concern NHRA with.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #34
     
    #8
  9. bmoore

    bmoore Member

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    Real drivers please..

    I am with Marty on this one, let the talents of the driver remain a part of this game. Hell, we could just run them as slot cars if we keep this crap up.
    Bill Moore, Cowie TAD 3



     
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  10. PAUL FISHBURN

    PAUL FISHBURN Member

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    Let the driver drive the car5. I say no!! To 2-steps
     
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  11. Dennis Taylor

    Dennis Taylor Authorized Merchant

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    The 2 step takes away to much of the driver input. Part of the challenge in driving these cars is staging at the right RPM, swapping feet, shifting on time etc. I have driven both alcohol and fuel cars over the years and love the fact the driver still plays a big part in the ET slip. I think if you can't swap feet properly, practice! I don't have a dog in this fight anymore, just my opinion.

    DT
     
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  12. '66 Vette

    '66 Vette New Member

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    I don't really care for them, but for the majority of the cars in TAD, the driver is sitting there with his/her left foot just sitting on the floor, and the right foot is just waiting to mash the pedal....

    Let the BAD's have some of the same luxury of not having to do as much, if they want to. If the guys who want to still do it the old way, they can.

    Then we need to address the shifting issue. Let the BAD's have auto shift so their hands are not so busy, and they can wave at the pretty girls along the fence line, like the other guys.....
     
    #12
  13. Gizmo

    Gizmo Member

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    Doesn't IHRA call that "Pro Fuel"?

    Steve L.
     
    #13
  14. john348

    john348 Top Alcohol

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    I voted NO
    Since i was a young boy many, many years ago the alure of the alcohol cars was the way the driver had to drive them, now a few have automatics in them :eek: sorry but i think they should be clutch only and no two step, if you want to bracket race they have classes for that also, maybe why the NFC are getting so popular!
     
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  15. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    I have licensed a total of 5 drivers in my cars. Myself, Pete Swayne, Dan Dickey, John Lombardo and most recently Daniel Oliver.

    I came to this class 21 years ago after running an A/altered because it is a drivers class. Dan Dickey and Daniel Oliver raced the Super Comp/Top Dragster classes and wanted to run TA/FC because they wanted to run a class where you actually have to drive the car. In conversations with my list of drivers the consensus is "%@# NO."

    From a fan standpoint I've had people tell me they like the build up and anticipation of the race. They like driver's communicating by rapping the throttle, the high RPM rev's as they stage and then the race. Pulling in to stage and hitting a two step takes away from all that. There's a reason the stands empty when the pro stockers run, because every run looks the same. No pre race dynamics.

    Fans I spoke to also point out how in the days of the AA/FC's, even though the cars were slower, they were more exciting to watch than today. Long unpredictable burnouts without throttle stops (NONE of my drivers ever had them), dry hops as the driver approached the starting line, etc. Now, unless the body grabs the throttle linkage and the runs over a bunch of people, there is nothing exciting about the prerace at all.

    Make the drivers drive the cars. Stop the dumbing down the class(es) before it's too late. Next thing you know someone will make a good case for automatic shifters. We've already got the cars shutting themselves off and deploying the chutes all by themselves. At this rate in just a few years you'll have both drivers sitting next to Alan Reinhart in the tower working joysticks watching a video monitor from a camera mounted on what used to be the cage in the car. Whenever a driver crashes they will say "I don't know what happened!" because they don't...BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T DRIVING THE CAR!"

    I've gotta go. A Clark Gable-Betty Davis movie is coming on. I hear it's a musical and they are doing the "two-step." I don't want to miss it.

    RG
    TA/FC #7135
     
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  16. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    Nobody has an "automatic" transmission, I still have to have my car leave the line at the correct rpm, I still have to shift, a converter car is far more violent early on than a clutch...harder to drive...I don't know, just saying. Even with the 2Step if I leave with the blades too far open for our setup, it will have more boost (regardless of 2Step) and the car will shake/spin etc..

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #34
     
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  17. Adam Rhoades

    Adam Rhoades Member

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    They have cars for people who can't swap feet....

    I thought A/Fuel cars were for people who couldn't swap feet?





    Adam Rhoades
     
    #17
  18. Barry Ferriolo

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    if Manzo shows up in Gainesville with a 2 step, then forget about any poll. it will be a done deal.
     
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  19. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    No way man!

    I don't see it making the cars leave harder, Bartone's .45 had a .941 60', Obannon's .52 had a .928 60'. All it did was let Bartone stage at an idle. I can do that in SC. No where near the skill required to stage it. (Obvious statement of the year)

    I agree with Rhoads, keep any RPM management out of alky, where the real drivers are...

    Flash
     
    #19
  20. Greg Sereda

    Greg Sereda New Member

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    I am totally against the 2 step because if I wanted to bracket race I would have not stepped up to Top Alcohol. If you take the human factor out of the equation than this is just another thing the small independent owners/drivers would have a less chances to run with the big boys.

    Now did we not see a big decline last year and previous years in the attendance in the Top Alcohol class? There needs to be more promotion to attract new owners and drivers in to this class before the class fades away. Not by every year having to deal with all the new safety initiatives or having to purchase all the latest and greatest gadgets.

    Still in the game but not sure for how much longer….

    Greg Sereda
    Tad 699
     
    #20

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