self tuning efi

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by lucky2wd, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Hi Joe,
    I typed a long reply but, I don't think it got posted. So, I will try again. If you see two replies you will now why. Yes, blown alcohol motors are very hard on O2 sensors, people usually tend to run their motors fat and if unburned fuel lands on the O2 sensor inside the housing it can crack it and render it useless. For this reason, I do not suggest the anyone rely on O2 sensors to "self tune" the motor. They are a great tool, probably the best tool to help you dial in your fuel map on the motor as quickly as possible. These cars are not cheap to run and time is always of the essence. Finding issues in the motor as early as possible can be aided with having O2 sensors on each run. That being said, again I would reinforce the statement of not using O2 sensors to "self tune" the motor. Use them to get extremely close with your fuel map and then you could use them to finish off the tune or turn off the O2 correction and use them as data for you next run. They are probably the best tool you could have to catch a problem early with EGTs a close second.
    The coil packs seem to provide better ignition than the Mags and reduce the amount of unburned fuel going out the exhaust which helps the O2s last longer from what we have seen. We use the Bosch LSU 4.2 O2 sensors. We have had great results with them. We have not tried the LSU 4.9 or the NGK O2 sensors so, I can't speak negatively or positively about them. The Comsync ECU can support LSU 4.9 sensor with hardware changes but, when I talked to Bosch and went over the data, I chose the LSU 4.2. On a blown alcohol motor I am a believer that you really need to run 8 O2s and not 2 (one on each side). Every hole is completely different and changes with RPM, 8 O2s help you dial in a fuel map for each cylinder much faster than relying on the EGTs alone. Having 2 O2s, I think sometimes can lead people down the wrong path and these cars are not cheap to run and time is usually of the essence to try to dial these motors in and catch potential problems as soon as possible, as stated above.
    You can use the EGT safeties to add fuel individually to each cylinder to keep from damaging that cylinder, some people rely on them (not that I recommend that). The Comsync ECU also has a user programmable EGT temperature where the Comsync ECU will deactivate each cylinder if the EGT goes over that temperature (the safeties are user programmable also). This will save you thousands in the long run. You can also tune your map with help from the EGTs. If you want to keep your head temperatures somewhat controllable during idle and staging the EGTs are the best tool for that. Also, they are a bit easier to make rough adjustments to individual cylinder fuel adjustments compared to the O2s and sometimes they are better at it. Over time you will learn how to look at both and have a much better idea as to what is going on in that cylinder.
    The Comsync ECU records all the data from each cylinder firing so, you can go through the data cylinder by cylinder. It has 268 Megabytes of onboard flash for data storage and 134 Megabytes of on board ram dedicated for data collection only, it saves every cylinder firing on the on board flash until you either erase it or it fills up all the memory. This is the actual data the computer used to calculate the Fuel and Timing for each cylinder fired plus all the car data you would want to record also.
    I hope this helps a bit.
    Blake
     
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  2. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Member

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    Thanks Blake for the info on the O2 sensors. I thought the system would have to be pretty involved but not that involved.
    Thanks, Joe
     
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  3. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Once you learn it you will never go back. Making changes to the fuel map in just one area is easy. I hope I haven't made it seem to complicated, it really isn't that bad. Anyway, thanks for the question. By the end June we should have a Pro Extreme car and a Pro Boost car running Comsync EFI with individual coil packs.
    Blake
     
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  4. td355

    td355 Member

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    I am running the Kam system on my Procharged TFX hemi with twin 550 lb injectors and coil packs. This system is very user friendly and easy to understand Highly recommend ..
     
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  5. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    About how much $ are we talking to switch a mechanical fuel injection system to electronic?

    Do any of the parts get reused?
     
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  6. Blake

    Blake Member

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    td355,
    Thanks for the complement. Kam System and Comsync EFI are the same system. We decide to change the name to a more "catchy" name. We believe (know) that this is the best system on the market. We also believe that we are the worst at marketing the system and are trying to change that.

    Call Ryan Micke 573-690-6083 for pricing. It really depends on what the additional parts you put on your engine. 2 injectors per cylinder gets you off the line faster but, costs more. Do you want 8 O2s or less and how many injectors you want in the hat all make difference on the price. Ryan is very good with knowing all the prices. Some parts that you already have can be reused but, again Ryan is the person to answer your questions.

    This system was built with and from customer input and feedback, we are always looking to improve and add features that you want as long as they are reasonable and can be done. At this point all software upgrades are free and I don't ever see that changing. Our goal is to be the best system on the market and continuously improve to make the system easier, better and protect your engine parts as much as possible. Sometimes, better is not easier but, we try very hard to always make the system easy to use. In the long run, this system will save you money because your engine parts will last longer.
    Thanks again,
    Blake
     
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    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  7. td355

    td355 Member

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    I started out new without any kind of injection on my set-up so I'm no help there. What I can tell you so far from my experience is my tuneup from Ryan was spot on. A few small changes around the idle circuit is about all that we've changed. When I'm at the track I send a file to him so he can look things over make or suggest a change and he sends it right back. This was a big deciding factor in buying this system for me. With having zero experience in the fuel injection arena I wanted a system that had support when I needed it. I don't have to email or wait on the phone or rely on a different person everytime I have an issue / question. This is just one of many reasons I went with this system ...
     
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  8. Troy cafaro

    Troy cafaro New Member

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    I run the Com sync aka (Kam efi ) in my twin turbo outlaw 10.5 car the system works flawlessly and is so easy to learn even a caveman Can do it . Thank you Blake for such a badass system that keeps getting better and better and the best part is Its all is one box .
     
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  9. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    Blake, thanks for the great info. I've been eyeballing the Comsync system for a while and what attracts me to it is the fact that it's a complete system, and the customer has access to tech help map setup. One company I've talked to about a different system charges an additional fee just to be able to call and ask questions about the installation. Not to mention there's not even a base map included.
     
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  10. Troy cafaro

    Troy cafaro New Member

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    Jason what's your motor combo ?
     
    #30
  11. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    I don't have one yet. My car is under construction. I'll pick the body and the chassis up next month. My plans are for a 521 hemi, with BAE 8 or newer heads, maybe even Noonan heads, and a 14-71 hi helix.
     
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  12. Troy cafaro

    Troy cafaro New Member

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    Wow very nice you would be crazy to run any other box then the comsync it is A little pricey but I can guarantee you that the first time out you will be flying without tearing shit up
     
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  13. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    Lol that's exactly what I need! I'm starting from scratch with this deal so I figured by the time I bought a fuel system, had it flowed, bought a mag, grid, coil and points box, I'd be money ahead just to start out with comsync instead.
     
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  14. Troy cafaro

    Troy cafaro New Member

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    Yes sir and all in one box ;) . I can also help you with learning the software if needed :)
     
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  15. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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  16. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Jason,
    Ryan and I were at Route 66 in Chicago over the weekend helping two Top Dragsters (which qualified #1 and #2 both with a 6.036, sheer coincidence though). Ryan and I will help you with your tune if you send us your data we can look at and make suggestion or make the corrections for you and send the table back to you. Ryan is trying to go to as many PDRA and local NHRA events as possible to help our customers. We or he can't go to everyone but, are trying to get to as many as possible. Troy knows his stuff also. I think you are making a good selection on your engine/blower setup. What class are you planning on running? If you do decide to go with the Comsync ECU, I would strongly suggest going with 8 wide band O2 sensors along with 8 egts (these are a must), 4 injectors in the hat and 2 injectors per cylinder for better 60 foot times. It make dialing in the engine much faster. You might want to consider a turbo400 also if you are going with an automatic. Good luck with your endeavors no matter what you choose to do. Ryan's phone number appears in an earlier post on this thread if you would like to call him.
    Blake
     
    #36
  17. td355

    td355 Member

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    My initial tune-up from Ryan And Blake were spot on. These guys are very experienced with the Hemi powerplants. The support Never stops and the updates just keep coming. They take our feedback allowing them to constantly make this system better and better. Troy has also been very good to me and has a wealth of information to share. Definitely made the right choice in buying this system ....
     
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  18. Jason Green

    Jason Green Member

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    Thanks for the input Blake. I plan on staring out with some NHRA/PDRA Top Sportsman stuff and regional quick 8's. I've been eyeballing NMCA Pro Mod and also pro boost if I can get the car competitive. It's currently being built for a Bruno or Quick drive and a 3-speed and I am wide open for things like gear ratio's etc.
     
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  19. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Jason,
    Ryan is the best person to talk to you about the Tranny and ratios. His brother owns M&M transmissions. He is extremely knowledgeable about that area. You should do well in all three categories once you get the chassis dialed in. You should talk to Ryan at this point, he might be able to give you some help or advice.
    Blake
     
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  20. rossele

    rossele New Member

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    What air fuel ratio do you suggest for blown alcohol motors
     
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