Rule Change

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by underby6, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Denny Hummel Racing

    Thoughts from Denny...........
    **##@***>>>***##":%#&* !!!

    OK, Bob, if you say I need'em, I'll order them tomorrow!

    :cool:
     
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  2. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    Dual Chute mounts

    Interesting how the rules seem to be all over the place.

    In Nostalgia Top Fuel, dual chute bridle mounts have been the law for some time now.

    Bob
     
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  3. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    LMAO!!!!!!:p
     
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  4. troysitko

    troysitko New Member

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    Auto Shut Off

    Hey, Doug.

    We noticed that too when testing it in our shop in the spring. Just had to adjust the shut off lever so it wasn't tight up against the brake handle after the device was activated.
     
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  5. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Doug, this subject came up on another board. Some drivers were suggesting that CF Brakes cause the car to bounce if you apply them too hard! Is that true?
     
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  6. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    So will steel, it's called adrenalin, driver controlled.
     
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  7. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    smblkbob

    "TA classes require separate shroud line mounting points for both chutes". Same as your deal


    Dean
     
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  8. Hemi Parts

    Hemi Parts Top Fuel

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    Carbon Brakes

    First of all let me say I am as deeply saddened over the passing of Mark Niver as anyone else. Much respect to his family is required here.

    I know I don't currently field a car so some will say I don't have a right to contribute. That being said, I have a considerable amount of experience driving fast dragsters and in my time have seen a lot of things transpire.

    The bottom line here is there is no comparison between the efficiency of a carbon braking system and a steel system, period. Not because it is my opinion or because I say so but because it is a fact.

    You do not have to drive the car any differently no matter if you have one or the other. You just have too have your system set up correctly in either case. Holding the brakes in the burnout in a blown alcohol dragster is a good way to shake your brain out and completely unecessary.

    Someone mentioned that carbon brakes aren't even "required" in the fuel classes. i guess some would feel better if NHRA added the "required" verbidge to the fuel classes however it's a moot point since no manufacturer supplies steel brakes for the rear ends that ARE mandated in the fuel classes.

    Do I think that the date for implementing this rule is a little, shall we say, hasty? Yes. Is it a good rule? I think so. The cars are faster now and the tracks "look shorter" to the cars. Therefore better methods (read carbon brakes) are the next logical step.

    As far as secondary mountings. I'm thinking if a chute(s) rips off the mount and then takes a run at the second mount the second mount better be really strong if it is going to absorb that inertia. Why not just beef up the initial mount in the first place. Anyone that knows me knows I like light race cars however chute mounts, cables, levers etc. is not a place I have ever scrimped on.

    One more thing and I'll get off my soap box. I have intentially not put the chutes out or put them out late many times on the really long tracks like Dallas, Houston, Indy etc. Why? Because it is fun (to me at least) to let the car go fast for a little while and then stop. And with carbon brakes you can do so with no problem. Also there is no rule against such things and until now no way for anyone outside the car to control such things. That being said when I see drivers dump only one chute on the short tracks like pomona etc. I think to myself they are nuts. When they dump one on the short tracks and put it in the sand I think to myself they have no respect for the owner of the car and his investment. If they own the car and they don't put both chutes out on the short tracks, I think to myself they are stupid. If they are stupid they need rules to protect them from themselves.

    Rules are substitutions for thougt.

    Bill
     
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  9. vwsamba

    vwsamba New Member

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    The only time i went in the sand was on a short track throwing both chutes for the first time. Everyone advised me to throw both so i did and they got tangled together and i got nothing :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    When I stopped driving years ago I insisted that anyone driving for me will use two chutes. Then I had a great idea. I made a spacer equal to the distance beteen the two levers, drilled a hole in each lever, took a 10-32/1.5" long screw, 2 flat washers and a nylock nut and screwed both levers together. Ever since then I've never have to ask to have both chutes deployed. When we installed the Leheay shut down we used the holes where the spacer was installed as the mounting point for the air solenoid.

    Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to "warm up" carbon brakes by dragging them through the pits or on the burn out to get them to work.

    I still say that NHRA nitro cars don't have a problem ripping the chute brackets off the cars and they are putting WAY more stress on the attachment points than the alky classes. We updated ours to the larger bolt spec NHRA called for this year and our old bracket we tossed in the trash looked fine. If the mounting method had a standard similar to the fuel team cars as part of the rules then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Alexis' brackets were welded on one side only to a fabricated metal rear end housing and it ripped it right off the rear end. Totally inadequate. The latest disaster saw a tube break off the back of the car that carried the impact of both chutes.

    I don't think the solution is double or triple mounting the chutes, I think it's getting it right the first time. If pointing out some facts has offended anyone, sorry. But as far as I'm concerned I see 310-325 mile per hour runs almost every weekend and I can't remember the last time I saw the chutes disconnect from a fuel car. What does that tell you?

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  11. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    Separate mounting points?

    "The latest disaster saw a tube break off the back of the car that carried the impact of both chutes. "

    So how did this qualify as two bridle mounting points?
    Our car has two, separate, horizontal tubes each with their own bridle mounting point.

    While I'm not familiar with TA chassis's our cross tubes are 1-1/4" .058 which are actually part of the roll cage lower uprights.

    Bob
     
    #51
  12. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

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    mount or cycles?

    Randy,

    Great points. Let me throw one in the mix.

    You are correct, we don't see very many chute mount failures in the fuel classes at greater speeds.

    Does it have more to do with design or the fact the fuel cars probably see far less cycles? How many fuel cars make more than one season? True they run more races, but most alcohol cars are used for 10+ years. They may be backhalved, fronthalved, etc., but how often are things like rear ends, housings and bracketry like the chute mounts re-used?

    Alexis' deal was on a new car, so that's a moot point.

    Next national event I'm at I'll go check out the chute mount on a new Hadman or Murf car to compare to what we are using.
     
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  13. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Will:

    Take some pictures of what you find and post them, please. And don't get in their way while your at it. Those guys are very busy.;)

    RG
     
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  14. nitrocad

    nitrocad New Member

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    Driver Protection

    Titanium shields are used to protect the driver from objects entering the compartment from the rear . Don Garlits used a Pro-glass lexan canopy on his later swamp rat cars . What I gather about Mark Niver's tragic loss , is that he had a head injury . From what , I do not know . Would a Pro-glass lexan canopy prevent objects from entering the exposed driver's area from the front ? Food for thought .
     
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  15. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Chute mounts

    Will:

    Take some pictures of what you find and post them, please. And don't get in their way while your at it. Those guys are very busy.
    Best idea I have heard since this whole deal has started. Dave Germain
     
    #55
  16. john348

    john348 Top Alcohol

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    Will
    Are not all the fuel cars alloy housings
    correct me if i am wrong but wasnt the the the ones that ripped out Mark, Alexis both tabs attached to the rear housing something you cant do with a alloy housing
     
    #56
  17. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Bob; from what I was told, it apparently was a single 1-1/4" x .058 crosstube about 13" with two separate anchor tab sets welded to the tube with double shear sleeves and bolts. Does this sound like yours ?
     
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  18. Dave Tuttle

    Dave Tuttle New Member

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    Get To The Root Of The Problem!

    I'm pretty tipped over about loosing my friend Mark Niver and have been thinking long and hard about what could have been done to prevent his accident or maybe yours. From what I've red on this site and others, everyone has been talking about all sorts of solutions but nobody has even mentioned the obvious root of the problem.

    The Parachutes !

    When you run these car as hard as you have to today, you're gonna tare up some parts. Weather you toss the Rods out, Smoke some Pistons or just squeeze out a gasket now & then, most of that oil you had to wipe off the car got swallowed up by the Parachutes shortly before they fell to the ground and got drug through all kinds of Crap getting off the track. Most people I've found occasionaly look to see that the Chutes aren't all torn up and just stuff them back in the bag.

    How many of you out ther actually wash your Chutes during the season?

    The Parachutes as far as I'm concerned, are a living breathing part of these cars. The Canopy is made from a High Pourosity Nylon for a reason! Clogg up all those pours and the Chutes become this Snarling Beast that tares itself or anything to tie it to apart!

    I've noticed the offenders of this are easy to spot if they're running the Yellow Kevlar Chutes. The dirtiest ones are always blowing panels out. Trust me, that's not because they've got alot of runs on them. It's more that they have seen alot of Oil Soaked Runs!

    Like Bob Meyer, I've also been building these cars for 30+ years and take their safety aspects every bit as seriously as their performance. Loosing an old friend of 25 years, that you've marveled over his craftsmanship, cheered for when he ran well and had pleanty of laugh's over a cold one, hits close to home!

    Think about it. You can add more brackets and bigger bolts to fix the problem, but its not a cure if you don't fix what's ripping all the stuff off in the first place.

    ~Dave Tuttle~
     
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  19. nitrocad

    nitrocad New Member

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    Driver protection

    I am still astounded that racers will strap themselves into a bunch of tubing and go 300+ mph .
    I know that carbon fibre tubs have been looked at and it does not help at all in maintenance of the car / clutch , but , surely some smart person / people would be able to incorporate a " spec " tub with whatever chassis tubing / systems you would want to attach to it . Example , Indy car carbon fibre tubs protect the driver much more than a bare tube chassis .

    The way things are developing , for safety and insurance reasons , ALL drag racing will be 1/8th mile and top pulleys will be the circumference of coffee cans !

    I'm putting on my flame-proof suit .... so let me have it !
     
    #59
  20. smblkbob

    smblkbob Member

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    Double Tubes

    No, our bridle mounts consist of (2) 1-1/4" tubes, each with their own bridle bracket.

    One tube could completely pull off and the other tube and bridle mount would still be there.

    There was a change (in our class) in the size of the bolt that came out increasing the size from 3/8 sleeved to 1/2" sleeved but it was deleted. Perhaps because someone pointed out that we are required to run two completely separate bridle mounts?
    Top speeds on our cars can be in the 250mph range.

    Personally, I have an issue with deploying both chutes at the same time. I have nothing to back up this opinion other than seeing a few wrapped up from time to time, over many many years, but would be very interested in other's opinions.
    How many times have you seen a run where one chute is inflated and the other dragging on the ground or tangled? I don't notice this as much with the Funnies as the dragsters.
    Again, this is just an opinion but would like to hear other thoughts on the subject.
    Does the auto shut off system require one chute or both?

    Bob
     
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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010

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