Rule Change

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by underby6, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. Bill Naves

    Bill Naves Member

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    rules

    over the years I've used several different brands of chutes.Like the 3 bears, some hit too hard, some too soft and some just right...by any chance, are the ones that tore off the same brand? Are they hard hitting? I've even had 1 that I thought was going to put me on the dash! With all the "pass the buck" Impact problems that went on for years, got to wonder if there is a chute manufacturer out there with a problem.If not, do they pull the housing off the chassis next? Are the chromoly housings too weak?My chute mount is also the anti-rotation pad so it is attached to the bottom of the housing and the chassis.don't know if it helps, but?
    As for carbon brakes, both cars at Englishtown had them,I had them in Charlotte...not anymore..I'll only put them back if I have to..not to say you should not use them, I'm just not sure they are the magic bullet.

    I was there when they had us add the second chute,. when they had us add front brakes,when they had us add the new helmet bar and 6 point cage,,when they had us add the new helmet pads, and every one of them was a good idea. but now we are beyond what I always referred to as the $1000 rule..thats what it has been averaging for rule updates to remain legal. Carbon isn't even required in nitro classes...they all use it, but do we need to put some of us slower cars out of business? If NHRA was to say carbon is recommended and will be required down the road, then new cars will come with them and we can budget accordingly to upgrade. But to say park it or come up with the dough? I can't ..Don't get me wrong, I think every effort should be made to stay as safe as possible..but not everyone is a top 20 team and if we're not careful, there won't be enough teams to bother with.There are alot of 5.80/ 5.90 cars that got permanently parked in the last few years because of money.
    Rules for chutes are, any vehicle over 150 mph is required...well how about any vehicle over 240/250/or what ever is required to use carbon?
     
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  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Englishtown

    Kalitta & Parker's deal both had the car's continuing to accelerate past the finish line, so it's not an equal comparison to say 'they both had carbon brakes.'

    The first time the chutes don't open and you can stop the car, they might have paid for themselves.
     
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  3. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Calm down please

    Will; there are two sides to every coin, in this case what you say might be good, but doesn't fit the latest case at all. Both chutes hitting at once obviously broke the anchor bracket. Double the force applied, more thought required.

    Bill; you know I'm old and cranky, especially right now. Certain things need preparation and time to implement, such as replacing the empty roll before leaving the toilet area, so as to be ready for next time. If you can't afford a new roll, start saving and go hang out at a friend's house until you feel safe returning.;):D

    Old Minnesota barnyard logic from Grampa.........
     
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  4. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

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    I do understand your point, but I would sure be a lot more willing to upgrade my stuff if they looked at the root of the problem first. For example, if they were to make a rule amendment so that everyone had to beef up or change the chute mounts by such and such a date, and as well the brakes have to be upgraded before the Winters next year it would make a lot more sense.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  5. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    where and when? again

    You guys are talking like this is already carved in stone. Where is it written and by what date is it required? I appreciate safety as much as anybody but there were two double chute failures. Mark Niver and Alexis Dejoria. Both had the chutes torn from the car? Why? Talk was in Alexis case that the hole left in the rearend allowed rear gear oil to get all over the brakes- would carbon fiber brakes have fixed that situation? Once again we need more info rather than knee jerk reactions from the rule making groups.
    I have to agree with Nathan- if the chutes being torn off the car is what caused both problems why aren't we addressing that? I know there is nothing more uncommon than common sense but let's try some for a change?
    Dave Germain
     
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  6. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    It's carved, they just haven't shown you the stone yet.

    The chutes aren't falling off the nitro cars. With more chassis builders involved in TA/FC and TAD than with TF and FC maybe a standard should be considered for mounting especially considering there may have been a home built car or two out there.

    I understand The Woz will be testing a secondary chute retaining system from DT at the Sonoma division race followed by Duane Shields later on.

    When Marc White ran it out at Pomona and made the turn with no chutes I asked him how the heck he made it. He said "I push the chute levers going into the lights and go immediately for the brakes like I have no chutes. When I feel the chutes tug then I relax the brake handle. If I hit the chutes and waited for the tug and it never happened it would be too late to go after the brakes and then your car would be junk."

    Drivers get lazy sometimes because normally the chutes are very reliable. Big mistake. The run is over when the car comes to a safe stop, not when it crosses the finish line.

    RG
     
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  7. DOUG GORDON

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    Got e-mail

    I got an e-mail from Jake Hairston of NHRA showing the new rule book revision. It says it is effective as of July 21st 2010.
    Doug Gordon
     
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  8. DOUG GORDON

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    Front brakes aug 11th

    SECTION 12 – TOP ALCOHOL DRAGSTER
    Page 12.5
    BRAKES & SUSPENSION: 3
    BRAKES (July 14, 2010)
    Automated brakes prohibited: Application and release of brakes must be a
    function of the driver. Dual spots or equivalent oval pucks mandatory; minimum
    two rear-wheel hydraulic disc brakes. Carbon fiber brake rotors used in
    conjunction with carbon fiber specific brake pads mandatory; all other materials
    prohibited**. Hand brake, if used, must be located inside body or driver
    compartment. Steel brake lines mandatory. NHRA-accepted fireproof brake line
    covering mandatory on all flexible connection lines. A current list of NHRAaccepted
    fireproof brake line coverings is available on NHRA.com. Contact the
    NHRA Tech Department for approved manufacturer(s). Brake lines passing
    engine or blower drive must be shielded. See General Regulations 3:1.
    **Effective July 21, 2010
    SECTION 13 – TOP ALCOHOL FUNNY CAR
    Page 13.3
    BRAKES & SUSPENSION: 3
    BRAKES (July 14, 2010)
    Four-wheel disc brakes with dual master cylinder mandatory. Carbon fiber brake
    rotors used in conjunction with carbon fiber specific brake pads (front and rear)
    mandatory; all other materials prohibited**. Aluminum front brake rotors
    prohibited. NHRA-accepted fireproof brake line covering mandatory on all (front
    and rear) flexible connection lines. A current list of NHRA-accepted fireproof
    brake line coverings is available on NHRA.com. Contact the NHRA Tech
    Department for approved manufacturer(s).
    **Rear: Effective July 21, 2010
    **Front: Effective August 11, 2010
     
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  9. troysitko

    troysitko New Member

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    Carbon Brakes

    1 Week...I hope a lot of companies have a lot of carbon brake setups on their shelves.
     
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  10. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Hi Doug:

    You guys have carbon on all four, don't you? Anybody that can run 261+ at the drop of a hat like you guys must have them already.:D

    RG
     
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  11. Bobby Bennett

    Bobby Bennett New Member

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  12. DOUG GORDON

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    On all four

    Randy-
    Yes we have had them on all four since the first day I started driving in 1993. When my dad drove he had steel but when he allowed me to drive he put he carbon fiber brakes on all four. For me it is all I know.
    Doug Gordon
     
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  13. bryanbrown

    bryanbrown Member

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    I'm not too sure about how much the front brakes actually do on a funny car, but I am certain that if my dad had carbon brakes on our car in Chicago, he either wouldn't have hit the net at all or at least wouldn't have destroyed the car. Our new car has them on the rear and I have no problem spending the money to put them on the front. I also changed the chute mounting brackets so that each chute has it's own plates.

    It bother's me that after our accident, no one from nhra came and really "investigated" what happened, how our car was confgured, or what dad/we thought went wrong or could be changed with the car/driver/track/safety response, etc. The first thing that would've been said was carbon brakes. The only person besides other alcohol racers who came by with serious questions and suggestions was Bob Tasca, and I appreciate it because he had some very good insight. It's sad that it seems there has to be an injury or worse for people to notice what happens in our classes. I never met Mark, but he was an incredible man who could create things I could only dream of, and I'm sure alot of stuff I never even imagined.



    bryan brown
     
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  14. Kenneth S

    Kenneth S Member

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    NHRA Tech Department announces amendments to Rulebook in four classes
    Wednesday, July 14, 2010

    As part of its continuing efforts to enhance safety, NHRA announced today that rear carbon fiber brake rotors and pads will be mandatory for Top Fuel Dragsters, Funny Cars, Top Alcohol Dragsters and Top Alcohol Funny Cars effective July 21, 2010, and front carbon fiber brakes will be mandatory for Funny Cars and Top Alcohol Funny Cars by August 11, 2010. The vast majority of vehicles in these classes already use this equipment.

    As an additional safety enhancement, NHRA is also working with manufacturers on a secondary tethering device for parachutes in the Top Fuel, Funny Car, Top Alcohol Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car classes. This is in addition to an enhanced specification for parachute mounting for the same four classes that was introduced earlier this year.

    A radio frequency-activated shutoff device, which shuts off the fuel supply, cuts ignition and deploys the parachutes if the driver has not done so after passing the finish line, will be mandatory beginning in 2011 for the Top Alcohol classes. This device has been mandatory in Top Fuel and Funny Car since earlier this year. Top Alcohol drivers may install the receiving device on their vehicles and use it immediately at all of the national events remaining on the 2010 schedule.

    NHRA’s investigations continue into the tragedies that have struck the sport this year and NHRA and the entire racing community again extend deepest condolences to the families of those involved. NHRA continues to actively address safety issues and work to enhance safety in the sport.

    All of today’s announcements follow a series of safety enhancements for Top Fuel, Funny Car, Top Alcohol Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car implemented this year. These include a burst-panel activated safety shutoff system, which releases parachutes automatically when the manifold burst panel breaks; the use of a cable around the main element of the rear wing to automatically deploy the chutes if the wing breaks; improved oil catch can systems; use of the Eject helmet removal system; and fireproof tubing around brake lines.
     
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  15. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Bob, ok on most cars how are they mounted? Ours are mounted together, off of a bracket on the rear end, this is a Plueger chassis.

    When we were at the Gators as we were looking to race FIA alky funny car, we had a good good look round the alky cars there, and I remember that there mounted on the same bracket, but different bolts. Ok great but surely if it pulls one off then the other is gone too? They should be mounted totally seperate...?

    Think I got a photo.

    [​IMG]

    We are not doing the same speeds by a long way but its my dad in the car and I want it as safe as we can make it.
     
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  16. TAD1128

    TAD1128 New Member

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    Bob Lang and Frank Manzo made the Shut off devices available at the D1 Lebanon Valley Points race, and the remote activation switch was in place for those of us that chose to purchase the receiver that weekend. The remote activation switch will be at all of our division races too. Ours was mounted on thursday before qualifying at the points race and it works great. I really didn't even notice it was there except that when I reached for the fuel shut off after the chutes, the fuel is already off.

    I think a secondary chute mount would also be beneficial, almost like safety chains on a truck and trailer. We here are all very sad for what happened to Mark and hope not to have to lose another member of the racing community like this..
     
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  17. Bill Naves

    Bill Naves Member

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    rules

    OK, I've never regretted following an NHRA safety rule so I'll find the money,

    Bob..you're not cranky or old. just a little more seasoned than me..Thanks for the insight..

    Will. I was referring to the 2 AFC last year.. but its a mute point now.

    To the guys like me who can't afford it...we really can't afford not to.
    So if anyone finds a really good deal on the front brake change over, let us know.

    As for the radio deal I had already planned on it.Thank you to Bob Lang and I hope this means the other divisions will follow asap.
     
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  18. DOUG GORDON

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    Radio shutdown

    We mounted the automatic shutdown on our car at Seattle on Friday morn. The only problem I had was at the end of the run I threw the chutes and grabbed the brake. Shortly after that it smashed my hand pretty hard with the fuel shutoff. I could not get it out for a while. We are going to figure another plan for the fuel shutoff. The other issue for division races is that it shuts your car down whether you are going slow or fast. So you have to get pushed off the track alot and I know at most division races they don't have all of the quad help like the national events.

    Doug Gordon
     
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  19. Rodney O. Trower

    Rodney O. Trower New Member

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    sand traps

    You want sand that will stop you better than river sand. Empty every sand trap on the NHRA circuit, and replace them with volcanic sand/Ash from St. Anthony sand dunes in Idaho. I am a sand duner and can tell you first hand this stuff robs HP and inertia. Its nothing like sand its just plane crazy. Walk across a dune and look back (once you stop panting) and there are no tracks. It gets on nothing and if you let off the throtle you stop like no kinda sand I have ever been on. Ask the sand guys and you will get the same story.

    Rod Trower
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  20. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Taliferro Bros. Racing

    Here's some thoughts from Mike Taliferro (car chief).............
    Mike has just ordered $10,500 worth of T/F style Lamb/Chrisman dual caliper carbon brakes for their car, along with the new safety shut-off system. He also mentioned that NASA has back-up systems for back-up systems and liked this type of thought, so we discussed back-up teather type systems that could be applied here.
    In the early days of T/F and Pro Comp, things kept changing so fast that as rear end housings were moved back or replaced, I simply had Simpson make double strap assemblies with silver fireproof covers and steel triangle type bolt plates at the ends for flexible chute anchors. It worked fine at then 240 MPH speeds.
    In todays world, this could be a viable back-up. The end bolts maybe should be larger than the std. 3/8" for that end piece, but if it was strung through the shroud loops with an extra 2" of strap, then double wrapped around the pinion crossmember, I believe it would be about a $35-40.00 back-up to your exsisting shroud anchor point. My guess on total weight, maybe 2.5 lbs.
    Give me a few days to think about a quick release teather for a F/C, as I know most like to pull the anchors off after each run. Or if you have a viable idea that doesn't involve a vise grip, speak up here, or PM, or call me.

    How's this for a twist, I'd like to spite them with "I'll show you, I don't trust your net or your polished rock trap, and I ain't goin' in it !!!"
     
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