Rule Change

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by underby6, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    Carbon Fiber brakes mandatory on dragster rear and funny car front and rear. This came from NHRA a few minutes ago.


    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #35
     
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  2. DOUG GORDON

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    Good idea

    We were talking to officials at Seattle and that was one of the things they were thinking about changing. Most cars already had Carbon brakes but unfortunatly Marks car did not. I think they are for sure worth the cost. It maybe could have saved one of the best guys out there and maybe can save the next guy in the same situation.
    Doug Gordon
     
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  3. Greg Sereda

    Greg Sereda New Member

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    I have only run Carbon Fiber brakes on my dragster and I sure would hate to count on them if my chutes failed. I have not run steel rotors so I am not sure how much better carbon fiber is than steel. I know I only have one chance to pull on them and if I were to let off and pull them again I end up like a bouncing ball.
    Greg
     
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  4. Barry Ferriolo

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    Brandon - where is the info from NHRA posted?
     
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  5. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

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    hmm...

    I'm not so certain it's a great idea to have carbon brakes all around on the funny cars...maybe I'm wrong...but didn't we have this discussion a while back and there were several that said "don't put them on front"??

    We've always used steel, never had an issue. I've stopped our TAFC a couple times on short shutdown tracks up here after the chutes either didn't deploy, or dropped down into the wheelie bar after going 230-240+.

    This worries me a lot if they are implementing this- all the horror stories I've heard with people having carbon rotors break/shatter, having to bake them clean, etc, etc.

    Why don't we fix what seems to be the actual problem and mandate (after EXTENSIVE TESTING!!!!!!!!!) a parachute mounting system that is "fail-safe", and oh yeah, FIX THE SAND TRAPS. I've been in only two sand traps in my 8 years behind the wheel of a TAD or TAFC, but even from that I can tell you that I was glad I went into the ones I did. No net, a little bit bigger than pea-gravel rocks. The car came to a screaming hault when I hit it. When I got out of the hatch I couldn't walk in this sand trap without sinking up to my shins. Sure, I had to pick a million rocks out of EVERYWHERE (clutch can included), but I couldn't be happier to do so because I was still in one piece.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  6. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Where and when

    Where is this info posted and when is it effective? Dave Germain
     
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  7. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    The info should be up in a week or so, maybe even by weeks end. As far as when it goes into effect, that I wasn't told. I was told carbon brakes were a "concrete" rule change and 1000' was a "possibility being discussed". As far as the effectiveness of carbon fiber, I'd never ever put steel anywhere on a TAD/TAFC. In the 13 yrs. we've run carbon, we've not once cracked a rotor or had any damage to the braking system of the like. I know of at least one A/Fueler that has dual calipers on his carbon rotors, very good idea. We have to be realistic here and know that NHRA isn't going to lengthen any tracks. E-Town, Pomona, and several others simply don't have the real estate, much more likely that they'll limit us to 1000' than change the track.....1000' beats the alternative of being eliminated from venues.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #35
     
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  8. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Kenny; yes this has been talked about before. It might have been me that showed concern about killer front brakes skiding the little wheels. Just think of the highlite runs they showed again from eariler Seattle races when Ron Krisher showed us what happens when the front tires skid.
    If they are going to mandate it, they need to mandate a proportioning valve also, and somebody smart enough to set it properly!
    As for the rear, Strange has a new 6 piston caliper, although more expensive, would be a extremely smart move, even if they go to 1000'.
    Take for what it's worth, been there, done that, even though my brain was invalidated by SFI after 30 + years of service to them..................:rolleyes:
     
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  9. Blownalky

    Blownalky Top Sportsman

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    I don't run 250 but have run several times well over 200 on short tracks with no chutes, not by design. I have carbon rears and steel fronts. I truly believe that if I didn't have the carbon rears that I would not be here today. I have the same concerns about locking up the fronts but if the proportioning can be worked out, I will buy the carbon front brakes and install them.

    Tom
     
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  10. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    On my TA/FC I have Strange carbon brakes on the front, Lamb carbon brakes on the rear, I run the Strange master cylinder with the remote reservoir and used to run a proportioning valve. I later took the valve off because it was not necessary for correct braking. There is no way I will ever run a TA/FC without carbon brakes on all four corners. Marc White went 255 in my car at Pomona several years ago when the chutes stuck under the body. He made the turn without any problems. Pomona is about the shortest track on the circuit.

    Because the brakes are smaller in front and because of the weight transfer that takes place during braking the fear of sliding or skidding the front tires is unfounded.

    My first TA/FC had SPE steel rotors on all four corners and I can tell you they were scary. If I ever lost my chutes at Pomona I would have become a permant part of the 14th hole of the golf course off the end of the track.

    If it's a money deal, stop racing your car for 6 months or so and save up the money. Get yourself a set of carbon brakes on all four corners, make a couple runs then get back to us on what you think. I guarantee rule or no rule you'll never go back to steel rotors.

    Carbon brakes is such a no brainer NHRA shouldn't even have to make a rule.

    Nathan: No need to do extensive testing. We've been there for years.

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  11. Don Hudson

    Don Hudson Supa fly

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    A great idea... too late.

    This is a wonderful rule..back in 2005 at The seattle race, we finally got our funny car down the track, low and behold it ran a 5.80something and the chutes didnt come out. I bearly made the turnout on to the road course, and I KNOW that the carbon Brakes are what saved my butt.

    Like Randy sez: If you cant afford 'em dont go..Well, you have no choice now.
     
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  12. Ghost - Kevin

    Ghost - Kevin Member

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    Talked to Randy G and Bob Meyer about this very issue last year in Vegas as we were completing the new car. I agreed then and give a thumbs up to this decision now.

    We put Carbon on all 4 corners of the new car. Kris can contol the car on the line at any rpm, and can stop with very little effort at the big end. Best decision we ever made.

    There is no comparision to steel and I wonder now how our old steel brakes on the old car stopped us as well as they did all those years.

    Like Randy, we had Mike Robeck put the porportioning valve in the brake system just in case, but so far have not had to adjust it.

    They are expensive but are well worth it. NHRA has got this one right.

    Kevin Hool
     
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  13. secondwindracing

    secondwindracing top alcohol

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    we went from steel to carbon and what a top fuel guy told me and it works you need to drag the brake through the burn out the rotors need to have heat in them to work.hope this helps others..Dave
     
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  14. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Randy; I'd rather see a guy have a choice to adjust if necessary.

    Kevin; 42 bucks is expensive ???

    The Russell's had the worst luck 3 years straight at Hallsville with chute failures, two years in a row they wounded the nose and canards on their first run of the race. Third race there was with the new car with the carbon brakes I talked them into. Chris called and said, we had to go around the wall and back up the track 600' to get him off the track, these brakes are already paid for !
    I never sold another car without them.....
     
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  15. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    That's fine. Just don't make proportioning valves a rule. In my case it's a waste of parts.

    I do, however, have a couple of the little blue two pound in line Strange check valves (one for fronts, one for rears). The brakes never drag and the car could sit for six months and never need pumping. Anytime anywhere when you grab the brake handle you get a full load of brakes.

    The first time I drove with carbon brakes I almost came out of the seat belts on the burn out. Great feeling after off'ing the SPE steel brakes.

    RG
     
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  16. Marc White

    Marc White Member

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    I've driven cars with both steel and carbon. With Randy's car i am positive that I would have tore up his car without carbon brakes on all four.
     
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  17. Relentless

    Relentless www.bretitanium.com

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    Read this with great interest, we run 4 wheel steel brakes, we used to have big problems with them, couldnt stop after a burnout...

    Changed to Strange billet calipers and new billet master cylinder and there great now.

    But reading this topic it seems steel is not great. Ok were not running high speeds, only looking at 202mph with the altered (still tuning the motor) and probably 220 ish with the funny car body on once were on top of things,

    is it worth the change? Santa pod has a pretty long run off...
     
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  18. JP

    JP Member

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    Ok Guys please get me up to speed here

    I have never run carbon brakes I have run tad,tafc and promod the first two in the fives at 245mph the promod 6.2s at 225 .... I dont belief to have any trouble ( I say beluef because I dont know better)

    My question is at the end of the run I just do short pumps on the brake handle to steady the car and not bounce , Are carbon fiber brakes the same as far as used or are they more easy to lock up and get in trouble?
     
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  19. Nathan Sitko - 625 TAD/TAFC

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    If we've been there for years, why is this an issue? In the past few years I've seen more than one chute mount get torn out of a rear end housing, or off the chassis. This shows that the chute mount is the route of the problem, no? I don't think there would be anything wrong with testing a bunch of current designs to see which is "the best" method, then mandating it be done that way for everyone. Then we could all buy the same bracket, mount it the same way, for probably a lot less than the $6000 quote I just got to change over the brakes on my car...heck, I'd even buy three or four spares.
     
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  20. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Stopping

    Nathan,

    I understand where you are coming from, but the goal is to have a good way to stop if the chutes don't come out, that's why they are mandating the carbon brakes. The FC I drove had steel brakes and I would have had a hard time stopping without chutes on decent shutdown tracks. It's hard to say, but it definitely gives the driver a much better chance at stopping.

    They might need to take a look at making a rule for a single chute handle that way everyone has to throw both chutes every time. The practice of throwing one chute has put more than one driver in the sand/net. When you throw one chute, if it doesn't hit, by the time you try to throw the other, you have used up a lot of real estate. If you throw both every time, if for whatever reason, they don't hit, you can go straight to brakes.

    I know some will bitch about the extra time it takes to pack the other chute or getting off the end of the track. If you get both chutes out and get on those carbon brakes, you should be able to make the first turn off if you are that worried.
     
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