Regional races coming?

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by kosky racing, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. T.A.D. 776

    T.A.D. 776 New Member

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    I have always voted for 16 car fields.
    No one wants to spend thousands of dollars 'of their own money' to go to a race and only run in qualifying.
    I never cared that I was first round fodder for the well funded teams but I at least want to get to race.
    Eight car fields are a joke on the little guy self funded racer.
    The self funded racer is the core of SPORTSMAN RACING. Cut the core out then complain that no one is coming out to race.
    Make the TAD TAFC classes all run that show up and a lot of cars will start showing up.
    Just look at Super Comp how many of those things are there.
    With fuel expenses what they are making the racers travel further to go to races will be the death blow to the class except for the - Daddy I want to be a race car driver, OK kid here is few million go have fun group and the ones making money from that group.
    Just a little input from the old style racer. You know the ones that built it themselves, put their own innovations into it and did it just for the love of doing it. There are a lot of us still out here.

    Mark Niver 777 was my favorite fellow racer as we shared the same mindset on why we raced.. I am sure there are lots more of us out there. You know who you are we are the guys that help each other out at the races.

    David Hitt TAD#776
     
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  2. Jagger

    Jagger Member

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    Great post! Well said.....
     
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  3. Barry Ferriolo

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    i second that emotion
     
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  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    D2 and 16 cars

    Jagger -

    D2 certainly didn't help anything by lowering the purse, but the issue of tracks not promoting events is not limited to D2. The car counts have been low for a while down there, so a track might have a hard time trying to promote an alcohol show that might not have a full field.

    Let's face it, Pinks was a big enough brand to promote itself. Constant air play on Speed gave it instant recognition. There usually was a waiting list of cars, so promoters were guaranteed of a day full of the type of cars those viewers liked to see.

    What were the other ideas you mentioned?

    David-

    The problem with 16 car fields is you add another run to the event. With as many short 8 car fields that are out there, it's hard to argue 16 cars is the answer.

    I think at some level there needs to be a 5.80 or so index class for the cars that can't compete with the heads up alcohol cars. This would give the low buck guy a shot at actually winning. I think between some of the older top alcohol cars out there and the faster TD cars, this might have some interest.
     
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  5. bruce mullins

    bruce mullins Top Dragster

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    it's funny to see people's ideas and thoughts of what it should be when they have never run one of these cars FULLY funded out of their personal pocket. 8 car regionals will be the end of alky racing as we know it. Its not easy to run a national event caliber car without help but there were times it was worth all the effort. but if NHRA is going to want the small teams to travel great distance for bread crumbs, you will start seeing 6 cars for an 8 car field become the norm till there isn't anymore than a few heavily funded teams left to dabble in the class.
     
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  6. Chuck Anderika

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    Anyone who thinks this is going to work is sniffing the nitro. If you go to a system where only the tracks that want alcohol will have them, you will have 3 maybe 4 in d1, probably none in d2, ? in d4, and sure as s### you will lose Columbus & Indy in D3 and maybe a few more. Ask NHRA if they will step up and guarantee that they will take the $ 18000. hit at their own 4 tracks to have alcohol run there. Do they do anything locally to promote the divisionals at their tracks? For most tracks divisionals have become a backgate affair where they won’t take a chance on advertising. If you think that is going to change you are mistaken. Ask yourself how many divisionals you have attended where there are $ 18000. worth of spectators in the stands, that’s the cost of having alcohol there without any increase in purse. Remember track owners are business people not charities, if they can’t make money they don’t want you there. They pulled alcohol from 1/3 of the nationals, did not include them in sport nat., you will be left out of Allstars now. (you won't belong to any division). Most teams won't travel the distance to regionals so we will just run less races. Kosky may be right, anyone interested in buying a complete operation(2 cars, 2 motors, 2 trans, 3 rears, extra heads, projacks, golf cart, trailer with awning,all support equipment, went 5.58 last pass)give me a call.
     
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  7. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    When I first started racing Top Alcohol a hundred years ago it was 16 cars fields in division 7. I remember 32 TA/FC's showing up at the Bakersfield divisional in 1991. Then someone named Gene Bergstrom got the bright idea to cut the fields to 8 cars because the eastern U.S. divisions were 8. I told him the number of competitiors showing up would drop like a rock because the current #10-16 spending their money to race these cars will not tolerate DNQ's for very long and the #17+ who would never have a chance of hitting the now top 8 will quit and buy a cabin in the mountains instead of wasting their time at the races. He responded by saying the opposite would occur. He said the car counts would increase because of the heightened competition. LOL.

    Well, in just a very short period of time we saw people park their cars and car counts dropped to 10-12 TA/FC's at division events.

    I have to agree with some of the posters here. If you combine divisions and are looking for more cars at these newly formed divisions then you need to make room for the added cars even if you don't pay first round money. Asking someone to drive 1,000 miles for a weekend to race their car only to sit it out on race day isn't thinking logically. And if the field doesn't fill up initially, at least the guy who may have a car sitting in the garage at home will see this and may decide to bring it out because suddenly he or she can play.

    My opinion is based on factual history as I explained above when they cut the division 7 fields. If the goal is to increase car counts it isn't going to happen...like I said... if there isn't any room for them on race day.
     
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  8. kosky racing

    kosky racing Comp Eliminator

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    Glendora meeting

    Duane you said we all know its broken please explain
     
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  9. Billy Anderson

    Billy Anderson New Member

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    16-car vs. 8-car

    I prefer a 16-car field.
    Just look at what happened when IHRA reduced their field to 8-cars to "increase participation." That was not the case, and it felt like the same 8 cars were the ones qualifying, it became a bit boring without the fun of a first round(in a 16-car field) upset. And then they were no longer a class.

    I've always said, my friend round of any event of any year is the Saturday evening Round One of TAFC at the Englishtown national event - bar none!
     
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  10. aafa760

    aafa760 Member

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    Regional 8 car fields

    Randy G.
    I to Remember 24-30 cars in Div 7 for 16 car fields.
    Back then we were so excited to race at PHX LACR BF SAC. We even drove to Pueblo CO for a race.
    The the change to 8 car fields we decided to go CIFCA racing instead.
    Then match racing a AAFA with Dave H.
    Now for the last two years parked due to $$$$.
    8 car fields will cause most lower funded teams to quit.
    But as we see in most ranks now unless you bring big $$$ to team you will not ever drive one of these cars. Young drives need to understand this.
    Good Luck to all the TAD TAFC teams out there.

    You could all Heritage Series racing.:mad:
     
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  11. Ken Sitko

    Ken Sitko Super Comp

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    Good point Randy

    I totally agree with Randy Goodwin. We used to pull all the way down from Edmonton to Vegas every year for the divisional because they had a 16 car field. We would usually qualify in the 11 to 13 position, and we have always been a low budget, out of our own pocket type of team. We just wanted a chance to race on Sunday. When they changed to an 8 car field, we never went back.
     
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  12. duane shields

    duane shields New Member

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    Broken

    Mike, you act like you knew no information, when you posted on here. Is that just to stir the pot? You were one of the first to hear about the meeting in Glendora because within two days of the meeting, I explained exactly what was said. This was no secret, everyone was told to feel free to share what was discussed. What is going to be a final version is certainly a moving target, and they are still getting information and recommendations.

    You want to know what is broken--
    1. You have 7 different divisions that decide they can charge and pay the alcohol racers different amounts.

    2. You have more and more track operators that don't want the alcohol classes because of the cost of our purses.

    3. You have our race cars on tracks that are not safe for us to run at.

    4. You have too many division races that racers choose from, and the car counts that are declining.

    5. You have tracks that have 5 people in the stands because the operators are taking a safer method of relying on the back gate rather then promoting their event.

    These are a few of the top items. While your division has a good car count, many do not.
    So Mike,instead of condemning a change that may have less impact on the stronger supported divisions, wait until it comes out. However if you think the above items are not issues in our class, I believe you would be mistaken.

    While I haven't seen the final changes, I believe something should be done. I think if the NHRA misses the mark, or it's a failure, then changes can be made. Sticking our head in the sand and thinking all is good would be a big mistake!

    Duane Shields
     
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  13. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I too agree with Randy on the 16 cars fields.
    But when the Nationals which pay 1500 for first round losers does not get full fields for all the events (over half of the races this year have not had full fields and a couple events have had horrific fields (Seattle and Brainerd are two that come to mind for weak fields)

    In reality the economy is likely the biggest factor.

    One of the aspects that has not been talked about and should be is funding for TA. If you have noticed, Pro Mod is likely the fastest growing class (Ya I know NFC is as well) and has been for a long time. The teams seem to run a lot and travel a bunch as well. The biggest thing noticeable though is that a good portion of the purses are from sponsorships. And many of the sponsorships come from the teams that run in it. Ya it maybe is not the best scenario, but it is the reality of the sport. The NHRA has proven they will not be adding to pursed without sponsorship, they are big business and that business is all about the bottom line.

    Chassis builders, Engine builders and almost all of the well funded teams have contributed to the growth of the Pro Mod classes and series’.

    Well one of the reasons they (the TA teams) don't fund it is that they have never had to before so why should they now. That is the logic in these current times that will kill the two classes.

    Teams have to move into the current climate of business.
    And most importantly the teams that compete in the two classes, have to be on the same page and have to be united and committed to run all events in their area or region. It is fine if you only have the budget to run a half dozen (or even less) events just make sure you run them, even if you are out of the points or not one of the quickest cars. You built the damn car, so run it.

    If the top funded teams in each class (TAD and TAFC) skipped one race they were planning on attending and used that money to help fund the two classes there would be $10,000-$20,000 x the number of teams who make that kind of commitment. That could total as much as $200,000. It is a very selfless thing to do, but it would go a long way to bringing back the class.
    Am I dreaming, maybe but think about it. The pay off would substantial: bigger purses, bigger car counts and likely happier tracks and fans.
    Also go back to my previous post that says the tracks along with some of the teams have to promote the classes. Maybe a few of the teams that can’t help fund it, can be some of the ones who would show up a day early for displays or whatever is necessary to help promote. TV, radio on location, exclusives to newspapers, whatever is necessary for the region.

    Tommy Lipar, Al-Anabi, BAE, Roger Burgess, Danny Rowe, Dave Woods, Tim McAmis, Spec-Rite, Darren Myer, Len-Mar Motorsports, Jeffers, are just a few off the top of my head who race, work and help fund the Pro Mod classes.

    We all know the teams in the class are passionate about it and all want it to succeed but those in it do not seem to want to band together, they just want to do their own thing.

    It is food for thought.
    Dean
     
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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  14. kosky racing

    kosky racing Comp Eliminator

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    regional races

    Is this the reason you go to division2 to support the divisions that get no car count?
     
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  15. duane shields

    duane shields New Member

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    Car counts

    I run the races that work for my type of car and the races that have the least amount of driving on my truck and trailer, and the schedule that lets me work atmy business during the most important times. Seems like I'm in your division almost as much as you. It also seems that without us and the division 1 and 3 travelers, there would be about 2 alcohol dragsters and we already see there is about 2 funny cars in division 2, (and it's not the only division with issues),which is exactly why the changes need to be made. Of course you only are worried about your area and not the others.
     
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  16. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Sponsorship

    Dean,

    Let's hope that the class never gets to the point of having to be funded by sponsorship like Pro Mod. Those deals aren't corporate sponsorships based off a potential ROI. They are rich guys funding the class. BTW, we do have a class sponsor - Lucas Oil Products. They had the option of calling the class "Lucas Oil Dragster and Lucas Oil Funny Car" just like the Federal Mogul deal, but they opted not to.

    I think we should be thankful we don't have to rely on hoping it becomes the YNot Racing Top Alcohol Racing Series presented by Short Line Express Markets and Cosmo Residences... (not singling out anyone, just an example). Pro Mod is sponsored by Roger Burgess not because Get Screened America is making huge ROI on the series, it's because Burgess wants to have the Pro Mod playground in NHRA. Same can be said for all the other sponsors before him, and probably after him. Every year those guys are hoping that someone steps up and donates enough money for everyone to race.

    Look across the isle at ADRL. It was started by 2 guys who used to fund the NHRA Pro Mod Series because they liked racing Pro Mod in NHRA. Then it was bought by a Shiek who had more money than them, and liked doorslammer racing even more than them. By all accounts that series loses money without a bona-fide series sponsor. Those racers all fear one day the Shiek will either move on to another hobby or finally decides to quit spending so much money.

    Frankly I don't think it's a road we want to go down.

    Sponsorship is not the answer. Building the 'brand' of Top Alcohol cars back up and getting results at the front gate is the only way we are going to have any more money in our class.

    We have all rode this back gate divisional model right into the ground. Are we to blame, no, the racer is the participant, so it's not his/her responsibility to promote the event, and we damn sure don't get to make policy decisions. But at the same time, we've watched our classes get promoted less and less at the divisional level. We're getting pushed more and more the way of being a rich guy car club class than a front gate show attraction. It shouldn't be that way. We are proven in many markets as a good front gate draw.

    The entertainment model has evolved, but our divisional races, for the most part haven't, from an entertainment perspective. For a fan, the structure is usually too slow paced. It's ran more like a bracket race than a show. These races need to be ran at night during the hot months and during the day in nice weather months. The 'show' needs to be more fast paced. When you watch a national event or an ADRL race, it's non-stop.
     
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  17. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Will, back in the day I think you are right. But it is not what is going to work in this climate. Yes Lucas Oil is the sponsor, and I try not to think what it would be like without them. Hopefully they are around for a long time.

    Money is the motivating factor for NHRA. But for TA teams the class itself (and competing) is the motivating factor. They want to be respected, they want to be treated like they are an important part of drag racing. With declining car counts (they are about 40% less than six years ago), something has to be done and something has to be presented to the NHRA to entice them to make sure the TA classes remain relavent. Commitmernt from teams and regional sponsorships (by way of whatever is necessary).
    What I proposed is only one possibility, maybe not the best one, but the NHRA is not looking for Top Alcohol marketing sponsors, they have too many events not sponsored on the big curcuit. That is the reality. The Lucas Money is spread so thin already.
    In a region deal there will be more travel involved and therefore more cost.



    The reality is funding is still the biggest factor of teams racing. the tracks do not want to spend more money for purse even though they are taking advantage of the classes in my opinion.

    The thought process of having all qualify (up to 16) is not a bad one.
    the #1 qualifier would be the lucky car because at half the races he or she would have a bye in one of the rounds. But the important aspect of it is more teams would be interested in competing because they get their chance in eliminations.
    I think even if round one of elims has no money if the field is open up to 16, you may get more cars.


    I don't have all the answers, I just know the time I have spend in the sport and primarliy in support of these two classes, I know things need to be fixed in order for it to continue

    Dean
     
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  18. kwldchld

    kwldchld New Member

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    changes?

    Hers how i see this. If the track wasnt promoting the class before they wont do it now either. What the hell is there incentive all of the sudden to promote it. Yea car counts may rise with the changes. But the people in the stands will more than likely remain the same. Just the racers.
     
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  19. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

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    I am sure the tracks are happy now and patting themselves on their wallet

    So what was once "broken" is "fixed" now? I have always lived by the axiom "be careful what you wish for".

    Good Goin Guys!
     
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  20. Don Onimus

    Don Onimus New Member

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    Reganals

    I know alot of racers got f==ked, but what is the N==A ass holes doing to all the Manu. + suppliers who we all count on for parts and service. Don Onimus
     
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