Priming/starting help

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by CjRedden, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Eventually this will happen:

    YouTube: Funny Car Runs Over Crew

    While they didn't exactly start it the way you describe it was still a case of the throttle open while people were around.

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  2. buzillamini

    buzillamini Member

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    No that will not happen. We have a neutral safty switch that is checked all the time to make sure it is working properly. The driver holds the brakes durring the starting procedure also. That is the most common method of starting in truck and tractor pulling and I can not remember one time where anyone has been injured because of a incident like that.
     
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  3. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Since this is a "top alcohol" forum I would assume not many are dealing with a neutral safety switch here.

    On a typical blown alky car with a clutch pedal I hope you don't actually think that holding the brake handle will keep it from driving over everyone and everything in front of it should the engine fire at full throttle.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  4. bandit496

    bandit496 Member

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    You think that motors used in tractor pulling aren't as sophisticated as those in "top alcohol"? Granted, accidents can happen in any type of motorsports. That is part of the reason in pulling that they have neutral start switches (a part of the tech procedure at every event). Safety is what it should be about. And, yes, my driver once hit the mag switch with the butterflies open but being in neutral not much happened except drawers needed cleaning. Sounds like it would be safer than having a squirt bottle with gasoline/alcohol squirting around where there is the possibility of sparks, backfires, and such that can cause spilled fuel to catch fire. Seen that happen too many times--first reaction of the holder is to throw the botttle which is on fire and when it splashes to the ground you have a real issue. But, anyhow, there were some good options presented for the original poster to consider when starting their motor. JW

     
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  5. Frank Kramer

    Frank Kramer New Member

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    This is the way we do it on our mod tractor.

    -Crank the engine till you have oil pressure
    -open the fuel shut off and crank the engine for about 5 seconds
    -Prime the engine
    -crank it and put the mag on.

    See the video.

    Frank

    [video=youtube;3ozL16sA5e4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ozL16sA5e4&list=UUG--AUGNME0zhibFnQsleXA&index=5&feature=plcp[/video]
     
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  6. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    You said that. Not me.

    Then you admit "And, yes, my driver once hit the mag switch with the butterflies open but being in neutral not much happened except drawers needed cleaning."

    Thanks for making my point.
     
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  7. Dale H.

    Dale H. Member

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    A lot less wear and tear on the starter too when you just squirt it and go!

    Dale
     
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  8. blowerspike

    blowerspike New Member

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    Clutch in mag off,build oil psi,stop....turn pump on, give a 5 sec squirt of primer,crank for 5 sec while priming with the butterflies close....then hit the mag...prime until idle system takes over....works everytime.....crew has total control off ignition...not driver....
     
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  9. Policy Peddler

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    start with out priming

    I have a pulling tractor, the methanol blown engine with the starter starts the first time every time, and does not quit.
    I turn the fuel on MAG IS TURNED OFF! Hold throttle wide open, crank engine for 5 to 6 seconds, until I have oil pressure, shut butterflies and turn on the ignition with out stopping the starter, Engine ALWAYS starts and just sets there and idles!
    No priming, No looking in the injector.
    when you prime it and start immediately, you still do not have fuel in the system to keep it running.
     
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  10. bob szabo

    bob szabo FC / altered

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    manual priming safety tip

    When a crew member is priming an engine to start it, he or she should keep an exit pathway in mind in the event the racecar jumps forward or backward. I have seen both. For starting full bodied cars such as promods, if you can, you should stand to the side of the vehicle when priming to get it started. Not in the front as so many do. I know of injuries to crew members during startings mishaps. We take for granted that the brakes work, the car is in neutral, the clutch pedal works, etc. Everysooften, I saw failures.

    Any time I was driving, I kept one finger on the kill switch and a hand tightly on the brake during startup before the starter was disconnected and the body lowered for the our FC combo. We tried to maintain a policy that all other crew members not envolved with starting stay away from the front or the rear of the vehicle during startup in the event that it were to lunge forward.

    Starting a rear engine car where the crew are located just in front of the rear tire is a concern. In the event of a lunge forward during starting, an exit plan in mind becomes vital. Especially if you have loved ones starting the racer, safety planning and some safer starting practices in the event of a mishape may be priceless.

    Bob Szabo
    www.racecarbook.com
    www.airdenstiyonline.com
     
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  11. TAF 316

    TAF 316 Member

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    Sure Glad these guys arnt trying to start a Nitro car
     
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  12. ITS IN MY BLOOD

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    Here is How most all start their High Dollar Alcohol Motors...!!!!!

    Check that mag clip is on (grounded mag off), Fuel pump is off,..Spin for Oil/Earl pressure about 5 to 7 seconds or gauge shows pressure, stop,. Re tighten the starter gear to dog,. turn fuel pump on, unplug Aux mag kill switch(we have one), turn power on,..open butterflies, squirt 2 or 3 seconds of Alky primer bottle into injector hat, look at driver for readiness, Brake, clutch in, no people leaning against tires or next to exhaust etc,.. Big Nod to driver, spin starter driver flips main Mag switch On, and its lit...check timing if need be, run threw the gears, reverse etc.. build cylinder head temp up to desired range, while also checking main oil line on oil pump that the oil too is building heat,..flip on Data recorder and proceed to do the starting line staging rpm. Wal La...:cool:

    [video=youtube;vZPOfqt2hzM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZPOfqt2hzM[/video]
     
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  13. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Clint who?
     
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  14. Ken Sitko

    Ken Sitko Super Comp

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    You tractor guys can start it any way you want, I have had dragsters right beside me run over their entire crew. No way you can keep the car from launching if it fires at wide open throttle.
     
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  15. James D

    James D New Member

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    I assume you are having problems starting first time while motor is cold not after its been running. Are you priming the pump? We take off the main fuel line at the barrel valve and crank it over till fuel comes out into catch can, re tighten line. We have a 3/8 air bleed in the hat and hook a clear line to it and a 5 gallon jug with a valve. Open valve give motor good squirt of meth, as soon as it fires it pulls fuel from the line/tank. We are on nitro so we let the car warm like this but it works great this way on alky.
     
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  16. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    Priming/starting a blown alcohol car

    I agree 100% with Randy Goodwin and Ken Sitko on their starting procedures. I wouldn't do it any other way. These things are dangerous enough.
    Not all blown alcohol cars have a neutral. Mine doesn't nor does it have a neutral safety switch. I was driving my car when it was started with the throttle wide open. I had my foot on the clutch stop, I had all the brakes I could pull and it still lurched ahead and ran over two of my guys. It only went 5 or 6 feet when I got it killed. There were several things that went wrong but foremost was that it was cranked with the throttle blades wide open. It won't ever happen again on my team or someone will be a spectator. I won't go through that again. I don't care who controls the ground wires or the kill switch. The simplest plan is never crank it with the throttle open. I would NEVER trust a neutral safety switch-NEVER.
    Not too mention that I don't want to risk burning up my starter or killing the batteries by cranking it until the fuel is picked up by the pump. I want my car to fire with the least amount of wear and tear on the fuel pump, starter, and batteries. I do know that when the car fires the oil pressure comes up higher sooner and the fuel pump picks up the fuel sooner. It just seems easier and safer on all accounts. I run a TAFC, I know nothing about truck and tractor pullers other than the remote kill switches you have (I think?) Do you guys have to actually start it twice on each run? And apparently you don't remove the starter? Dave Germain
     
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  17. Policy Peddler

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    starting a tractor.

    that is why the throttle is closed when we crank it over.
    also why we have a neutral start switch so it will not start in neutral.
    Ken, surprised you do not have neutral or an ignition switch in your car!
     
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  18. aort

    aort Member

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    Did you mean so it will only start in neutral?

    I have a removable starter on a TWD. There is a two wire connection that connects the truck to the solenoid that gives it power. One wire is only hot when the truck is in neutral, allowing the button on the starter to engage the starter. The other wire is from a button on the dash, allowing me to turn the starter over from the seat. Either one only has power when the transmission is in neutral.
     
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  19. Policy Peddler

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    neutral start

    yes it will only start in neutral.
     
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  20. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    50-50 gas alky mix and a healthy dose
    No way i'd ever spin a car over in the staging lanes with a throttle open
    asking for trouble in my opinion
     
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