Pomona blower inspections

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    I don't know why racers should feel "helpless" and your Norm Drazy comment in your post makes me think the TV was on while you read the Complus article. NHRA did consult with PSI. And Norm Drazy's office at PSI looks right out in the shop.

    Quote from the article:

    “There were some allegations made by different racers throughout the end of the summer that there were some modified blowers out there,” Gray said about what prompted NHRA to check the superchargers at Pomona. “Every three years these blowers have to be brought back in for SFI certification. PSI (Superchargers) had been receiving blowers back that had been heavily modified inside. So, we became aware of it from working with PSI and from racers telling us (NHRA) that these modifications had been made. I have been in the middle of this and we (NHRA) did quite a bit of research before we did this at Pomona.”

    "We do not know if it (Bartone’s violation) is a performance advantage because we would have to take it to a blower dyno and test it, but we do not have to do that and we do not need to do that because we know there has been a modification made to the blower.”

    “In talking to the manufacturer of the blower, there have been other blowers modified in this manner, so it wasn’t an accident,” Gray said.

    So according to Gray's statement, they consulted with PSI over this issue (I know this personally), the modifications done to Bartone's blower have been seen on other blowers sent to PSI for rework (so I doubt it was just a deburring mark. And even if it was, what are they doing inside the supercharger to begin with?) The longstanding rule isn't whether the modifications helped or hurt perfomance, it's the fact that it was done. It's not a complicated rule.

    I've raced for over 40 years including 22 years in TA/FC and know how the rules work. Except for the short period of time that there was confusion on PSI's "blueprinting" deal between Collins, Gracia, Gray and Roger at PSI which turned out to be legal, it's always been cut and dry. You and I can not modify the blowers in ANY way. And I'm with Jay Payne on this. Because of the SFI certification (and remembering the two PSI superchargers that about levelled the racetracks when they blew up several years ago) I did not think anyone except for the manufacturer (PSI) was allowed to take them apart.

    I've talked to a lot of fellow alky racers and all agree. This is bullch!t. We came to play fair. And Paul Gill proved you can still go fast without ruining your reputation by screwing with the blower when you knew you weren't supposed to from the very beginning...period.

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  2. Cal Bellamy

    Cal Bellamy New Member

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    Randy can you or anyone else explain how do you get your PSI rotors coated from a source other than PSI and have them installed by a non SFI source?I believe DMPE and Cantrell both offer coating services.
    If you are at a race track and one of the rear bearings starts to fail, are you now obligated to send your blower back to PSI. My bet is it will get changed and it will happen by crew members.Drag Racers are skilled people, this type of service is easily handled outside of PSI.
     
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  3. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    And I'm sure you realize one of those non manufacturer sources was pointing the finger at the other non manufacturer source over this. And I'm also sure you know the manufacturer is looking into a fastener or seal to make sure some non manufacturer will never be able to legally take them apart again, and that the manufacturer has been adamently opposed to anyone else taking them apart due to liability and certification from day one.
     
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  4. Cal Bellamy

    Cal Bellamy New Member

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    Randy I bow to your superior knowledge on the politics of this issue.However the question remains can a you make minor service ie. Bearing swap as descibed earlier?
     
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  5. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Randy I am betting it was PSI blowing the whistle on the said illegal doings inside the blower.

    Dean
     
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  6. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Don't bow to my knowledge. What I know wouldn't be worth enough to buy you a cup of coffee.

    Having never had one apart myself I can only guess on this one, I doubt changing a bearing is a minor repair. With .002+/- clearance between the rotors and the degree of twist there is no margin of error with regards to thrust or end play. With my tiny little budget AND my feeling that rules are rules I would never consider doing a field repair unless I had Roger in my pit helping me or doing it for me.

    Back in the high helix roots blower days I would yank the rotors out of the blower and restrip them myself every 1-2 runs so diving into a blower isn't the issue for me. The issue is my interpretation of the rules regarding the PSI and what PSI has said to me whenever I considered working on it myself.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  7. john348

    john348 Top Alcohol

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    Does anyone know what the said illegal doings inside the blower were?
    I am going to have to guess this was more than rotor coating?
     
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  8. Whipple Charged

    Whipple Charged New Member

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    I'm seriously perplexed by this entire saga. "Blueprinting" blowers to the drawings? Does anyone know what modifying the pressure ratio and inlet port timing does to a screw compressor? Has PSI SFI tested each version? Because each version changes the internal pressure, therefore jeopardizing safety. This is not the first time, and I highly doubt the last time. Remember the C and D debacle? How about opening the front inlet and modifying the discharge ports in the late 90's? What about the recorded phone conversation? How about customers being able to order different rotor to rotor clearances? Oh thats right, it was on the blue print that had every possible future modification on it.

    NHRA really has let this get out of control and gave one company a monopoly. DMPE tried to get there SC NHRA approved, it was rejected. Our modified version in the 90's was rejected. Last year, we just tried to verify our overdrive limits, making sure they were still the same as we are recertifying our SC's again, and instead of clarification, we got a letter stating nobody can run our SC at NHRA events. The same SC that hasn't been produced in 10+ years can't race, what kinda of BS is that? Did some sitting on a shelf get defective?

    We have our new SC that will give some great competition to the alcohol classes, but were only going to be offering for ADRL and other outlaw series since NHRA is not really open to allowing competition on the supercharger.
     
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  9. Whipple Charged

    Whipple Charged New Member

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    I can't speak for Bartone's SC, but most are modifying the bearing/shaft area, inlet port and inlet area to increase airflow into rotors. Since nearly everyone is spinning them at max speed, little changes on the inlet side can prove very helpful.
     
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  10. Dale Finch

    Dale Finch New Member

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    I like Cal have been keeping an eye on this thread for awhile. I got to work with Steve for a year and a half and cheating was never on the horizon. I respect the man.

    Like Randy, We have never had our PSI Screw apart. Remember there is a little foil seal that is not to be removed that goes over the case to end plate cover. When the whole rotor coating deal became the worst kept secret, I asked how does this happen when the blower has to go back to PSI.

    I spoke to another prominent alcohol manufacturer/tuner and he said I don't know how. This is crazy, blowers are being coated every 10 runs and now we have to have 3 of them. This is too costly when we had a blower that Norm designed to be indestructible even if you lost an engine. Just keep everyone on the same playing field.

    Only one NHRA tech guy has ever checked the seal on the blower and he also one day surprised everyone by counting pulley teeth. Only one time in all those years !!! Thats where this whole deal has got out of hand in my humble opinion.

    Add in fuel cooling.....I can read the rule book. Now everyone has to spend 3K or be left behind. Don't even get me going when it comes to body templates as I don't want to change this thread. Why do some cars look different.....and others all look the same. Yet I was on a team that had to move the body for being too low....what about that one over there.....??? Sorry.....

    I think that NHRA or SFI should be on top of this. Just imagine a modified blower coming apart and what it could do to our sport if spectators got injured or worst.

    I love the alcohol classes.....but I understand why nostalgia fuel is growing. The pump restriction equalizes everything......that is what keeping the PSI stock can do for alcohol.

    I believe in open and transparent communication.....some folks reputation is seriously in jeopardy.......I think pictures should be posted so there is now doubt by their peers whether this is a modification or not !!! If blowers where checked and they are legal, especially when they don't normally get checked.....then NHRA should make sure they communicate those teams were legal. Let's not hide on this......we don't want rumours to potentially hurt legal teams either.
    thanks
    Dale
     
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  11. Soldierboy0098

    Soldierboy0098 Active Member

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    Mike Strasburg

    Funny thing is I can't even get Mike to swear, much less drink. He is the last person there I would check. It was the same and the opposite at the same time in the Army too. I had a ceisure in Iraq and was told I had to take several medications for that and insomnia (PTSD). Guess who was always selected for....."Random Urinalyisis testing" I just asked them if they wanted me to put the pills in the cup and save the middle man.....

    Trevor Sherwood

     
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  12. Pat McGill

    Pat McGill Member

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    So, has anything been resolved in time for Pomona next month?
     
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  13. Wayne Butler

    Wayne Butler Member

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    blower repairs

    I do not normally get involved with this type of postings, but I can share a little information. I have repaired several PSI blower cases. These repairs were nessasary do to back fires, rocks and other failures that scared the tip strip sealing surface. None of these repairs were made to inhance the blower. Just return it to a usable condition. At first PSI said I could not repair anything on their blower. Then after a few more conversations they said i could not repair the male rotor. I would have to agree with them on that point, because any damage to the male rotor would in my opinon weaken it's structure. I have cut one apart and this is a complicated piece. I will also tell you this is the only piece in the blower that is SFI certified. It is also the piece that caused the nasty explosions spoke of in earlier posts. That is why we must have 14.21 resraints. The blower case is made of Magnisuim not a first choice if you were making a ballistc retention device. If it was to be part of the SFI spec. Would you not want this to be your first and best retention device? Made out of billet high grade aluminum?
    Some people say we should never be inside these blowers, well most don't have the extra cash to buy 5 of the first run (on the tooling) blowers then pick the best 2 or 3 and then sell the others. The only thing that keeps alot of people in the game is to be able to restrip and repair our own equipment. PSI has sold me the seals for my blower. They knew I was restripping my blower between certifications. They also knew I had Cantrell coat it. (they didn't like that) What his coatings did for me was fix some of the imperfections in the machining and the casting. All of this made an unusable blower an average one. Nothing spectacular but good enough to compete on the divisional level if you get all of the other stuff right. As far as the skills needed to assemble a screw blower if you worked on your own roots blowers you won't have any trouble with a screw. I am not talking about re timing the thing just regular maintance. The seals are a little tricky and expensive so you want to practice on an old set.
    A repair to the cusp or a bolt gouge will cost $400 to $800 as long as you don't hurt the male rotor. If you do you might be looking at a new or different blower. I would also sugjest the welding be done by a certified (by the state) welder. You wouldn't want a wanabe making a bigger mess out of your stuff than you did.
     
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  14. eli

    eli Banned

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    Not for anything, But Tony is the driver, I don't think he builds the parts on the car he drives, So IMHO, I would think that the Owner & Crew Cheif would be the one's to fine.
    Just Saying.
    Gene Terenzio Sr.:p :confused:
     
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