PDRA Quick 8 Dragster class - Why no screws?

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Soldierboy0098

    Soldierboy0098 Active Member

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    Rules

    Hi,

    For what its worth I had a long conversation with David Cook who helped implement the rules for the PDRA when it started. I did so because I had a question about why the new class could be tethered but had to be self starting, when hooking up the tether is the same as hooking up an aircraft starter. He explained to me that they used NHRA's rules to get started and anytime they make even the slightest change to a rule they have to jump through many burning hoops to get an approval and its not guaranteed to pass. It had to do with every track accepting NHRA's rules because they were the most stringent so using NHRA's rules as a base would prevent any hassles. He did say that he is no longer involved in that anymore as he runs his own pro mod deal but the rules may change in the future as things get going. Also as per Buzz so far this class is a 1 year deal. I suspect this is a trial deal and if it goes well it will continue further.

    I have spoken a lot with Bob Harris lately and they are going to allow billet blowers so as not to rule out any cars who already have them. I will say however from my research with someone who knows, dynos, and manufactures blowers, the advantage over some modified cast blowers will not be enough to give someone a huge advantage, a little...yes....huge no. The rules were set using the NHRA TD rules as a base and from what I gather they seem to want to get the class up and running without having to worry about parody issues or policing the cars. Just a fuel check and weigh in, everything else is visual.

    I could see them allowing clutches if they do there own rules seeing as how they are pretty equal performance wise in the 1/8 mile but we'll see how it goes.

    Is there still a huge delay in getting new screw blowers or has that cleared up?

    Also what does a modified competitive screw blower go for these days?

    I know the most expensive roots I could find was a Chuck Ford at $25,000 to lease one for a year but as Jody said the SSI that I bought from him has ran a 3.68 on an aborted run and so far the unofficially quickest roots blown alky car in the world is Mike Dedomenico at 3.65 with a cast blower, followed by Phil Esz 3.66 (official record) with a cast blower, Jody and one other guy have ran 3.68 with cast blowers, I know Buzz has went 3.68 or 3.69 with a cast blower, and outside of that I don't know of any other cars that have went in the 60s and I have done a good bit of research on it.

    Best wishes,
    Trevor Sherwood
     
    #41
  2. Sheppard racing

    Sheppard racing New Member

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    Does NHRA have a turbo size restriction in top dragster?
     
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  3. DQUES

    DQUES Member

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    Trevor you can add Vollmer and Molnar to your 3.60's list and both have run 200+ mph in the 1/8th .
     
    #43
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  4. Soldierboy0098

    Soldierboy0098 Active Member

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    I can't believe I forgot Paul and Vollmer was the gentleman whose name I could not recall. Thanks for the correction.

    Paul Molnar went 3.67 I believe and Vollmer went a 3.68 or 3,69 I am thinking.

    I can't wait to watch this class grow and develop.

    Trev

     
    #44
  5. DQUES

    DQUES Member

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    Molnar has been 3.66 , .67 and .68 several times . I hope they let Vollmer run his clutch car it is a very nice piece and they are not against traveling , pretty sure they drive around 8 hrs just for a 1 day event at Thompson .
     
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  6. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    future

    Look, I get that McElwee stepped up and brought the money to the table. I just think the rules, as they sit, make it difficult to grow the class past the few purpose built cars that are out there. Sure any TD can show up, but a car that has been built to run 6.0 in the quarter probably won't be competitive. Case in point the screw blower car I built for my guy down here, I would have to make some pretty significant changes to it to run 3.60s, especially with limited overdrive. A lot of the roots TD's out there that run low 6's don't have a whole lot more in the tank.

    At the end of the day, it's going to take a car that is basically a late model TAD with a roots on it to win in this class. If I lived in the southeast and knew I could race Bradenton and this deal, I might consider it. It's going to be a hard sell to a potential racer somewhere else in the country to consider building a purpose built car for a 5 race a year deal, or even the full PDRA schedule.

    Case in point. I have a TAFC roller and might be out in a year or two. I'm not going to build a roots motor and put an altered body on it to run a 5 race deal on the east coast, not to mention there is no guarantees of the future. If they let the screw in, I could at very least entertain the possibility.

    As far as telling me how cheap a good roots blower can be had, you can tell someone else that. I will remind everyone in a year or two that it will take a modded blower to run at the front of this deal. Personally I have no interest in chasing that.

    My point isn't knocking what you have, I think the opportunity to let more combinations in is important. A rising tide lifts all boats. More cars equals more interest, support and potential sponsors. Weights and blower OD is really all you need to police different combos. Those are very easy to police.

    I wish the class the best. I think year one it will be a pretty good success as most of these deals are. It's building on that base and maintaining the class in the later years that will be the challenge. Best of luck, and I will be a supporter regardless.
     
    #46
  7. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    I was talking to Buzz today .....it seems like a few racers are not satisfied with the rules package for this five race series. The best option would be for all of them to pool their money and sponsor the other five races in the PDRA schedule. Since it seems most of the ones not satisfied are from the mid west it makes since to fund races in Houston, La.,St Louis ,And Memphis. Bradenton is on its own. Lol. This will be a successful class as we already have a ton of interest and pre commitments, and the powers that be at the PDRA are loving it. No set of rules can please everyone. Thanks Will for the space to promote the class your support is appreciated.
     
    #47
  8. Eric Vollmer

    Eric Vollmer Member

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    So since I am a mid west guy and was one of the guys challenging the rules I just wanted to put a couple thoughts out there. I am by no means upset I can't be part of the show, I will race Asphalt Wars again this season in Thompson as long as there are the 5 races out there and if that isn't an option I can run my roots blower in TAD. I just wanted to address Jody's comment about stepping up and sponsoring the other 5 races and this is only I how I interrupt that, basically pay to play. If I wanted the rules changed all I have to do is sponsor the class and I can allow myself to race. Money aside, that doesn't seem the logical way to promote growth for a class. My thought is why would you not want to start out with pretty open rules and see what happens? If a particular combination is dominant because of parts or other reasons a rule adjustment could easily be made to address the issue or that combination could be excluded after seeing how it plays out. It seems like the best way to grow a class and attract sponsors for it would be to have a lot of racer interest and say like 20 cars showing up trying to qualify for an 8 car field. With outside sponsorship, a racer or their company wouldn't have to fund a place then for themselves to race. Now if a select group of cars want to run their own deal and fund it that is awesome they have the ability to do as such, but I doubt that will sustain growth or interest. It just appears the rules were built for a select group of cars as they don't even follow top dragster rules since a clutch can't be run in an altered or in a nitrous dragster even though that has always been allowed in every top dragster class. Maybe there aren't enough clutch cars to make a difference, but I sure would love to see the class grow and attract more racers and to exclude a car because of a clutch I just haven't seen or been convinced that it is such an advantage to initially exclude them from a heads up type class. If top dragster rules were exactly copied over to this new class then I could see where the argument would be made that a clutch in a blown dragster isn't allowed but in this case the rules were written loosely based on top dragster and they could have easily included clutches or not excluded altereds with clutches or nitrous dragsters with clutches. I hope the class does well and if rules ever change to open it up some more there is an opportunity for the class to have some fast cars show up to try and qualify.
     
    #48
  9. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    No worries..... But he knew from the start that there would be racers that felt disenfranchised, but there has never been a class with rules that made everyone happy. I, for one, am very thankful that Buzz stepped up to sponser this deal. But his decision was based on keeping the racers that were already running with the PDRA in TD a place to race. The fact that the PDRA in their haste to grab a set of rules for the TopDragster class used the NHRA's rules is a shame. They should have used the IHRA rules. I understand that to run on NHRA tracks they needed their safety rules but not the rest.
     
    #49
  10. BLOWN INCOME

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    Q-8

    I guess I will put my 2 cents in ...................
    A altered doesn't have a chance ! Can't get the weight down to complete with these 1800/1900 lb dragsters running the 526ci + engines.
    Even in NHRA the dragsters are running much quicker then the F/C's which are more aero. then a altered body.

    Santo Sicilia
     
    #50
  11. The Dark Side

    The Dark Side New Member

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    Sell clutch buy converter problem solved !
     
    #51
  12. Eric Vollmer

    Eric Vollmer Member

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    Look your right, I could buy a converter and everything else to change my car over but that wasn't really the point of anything I've posted. I was only looking at and making suggestions for growing the class and getting a quick field for an open outlaw style class. I've tried to bring up valid points so I'm not sure if your post was to just to be "smart" or if you were making a point beyond the obvious. I understand somebody has to make rules and not everyone will like them, that is racing. When you pay for a class you should get the final say on rules and that is cool. I respect that and if I want to run PDRA I need an automatic. I just was making suggestions to see a group of the fastest roots blown cars run against each other. Either way like I said before I have places to race my car yet and hopefully in an upcoming season we will switch our blower to a screw and move on. I am not upset I can't race in the PDRA class, I made my suggestions and tried to do so with class and explanation, not just post why no clutches? So it is a little offensive to see a post like buy a converter...I'd be happy to discuss any valid points anytime and wish to see the class do well and grow.

    Eric Vollmer
    815.545.5418
     
    #52
  13. The Dark Side

    The Dark Side New Member

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    I get your point. I think there are more cars out there that run a converter than run a clutch. If what you said about allowing other combinations in and if one type develops an advantage change the rules to even it up. So instead of upsetting someone at the start you upset them half way into the season. I appreciate Buzz stepping up and starting this class.
     
    #53
  14. Sheppard racing

    Sheppard racing New Member

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    Rules

    I'm going to voice an opinion. Going back a year or so I'm told there will be a new heads up class at Kilkare. Talk to Ron Bales about it. All funded ready to go. Glenn, get your car together, the more cars the better. My dragster is sitting in the shop minus blower and hat. I decide since there will be a place to race it close to home, I'll go ahead and the build the twin turbo set up. So I ordered the turbos, get all the stuff fabricated, spend thousands of dollars, and then find out no racing, I believe weeks before it's supposed to start. I shared my project with many outlaw dragster racers, using 94 mm turbos on my build. I get wind of the PDRA quick 8 plans and get excited about racing again. So I get cooking on it again to get ready for this year. But WAIT, the rules come out restricted to 88mm turbos! I think, WTF? All I can figure is some racers may think there car won't be the quickest. Well, that's fine. Rules are rules, but as Eric said, get as many cars there as possible and let the chips fall where they may. There's not that many 3.60 cars around anyway. But consider this, is a racer going to buy a proline $100,000 engine and $15,000 trans set up to run for $3000 and 5 races to beat up on everyone else? Doubt it. I can't commit to particular races anyway, we haven't been down the track yet, and besides, my son, driver, has to orchestrate time off work to drive the sled. And before I'm blasted by a certain racer as having sour grapes, I say good luck to all and congrats to Buzz for sponsoring it. But let's face it, up until now there's been no big stage to run heads up since Norwalk Friday nights that I was aware of. Have fun and be safe! And remember, just my opinion, like an a-hole, everybody has one!
    Glenn
     
    #54
  15. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Yeah.... But sour grapes make damn fine wine.
     
    #55
  16. Sheppard racing

    Sheppard racing New Member

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    Good thing I don't drink then!
     
    #56
  17. tad2155

    tad2155 Member

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    open outlaw

    hey guys at least we hav a start, I probably want get 2 race all 5 races because of locations but I was willing to throw n som funds 2 get it started we as x TAD racers need another avenue to race ,,1/8 mile racin 4 more prize money than nhra runnin 1/4 it makes a lot of sense as far as maintenance and cost 2 me an organization ran by racers makes even more sense,, my thought was try and the key word is try and the class can evolve into a great deal with more combo's I my self don't hav a problem with screws and clutches but we got to hav a starting point and I think it may help grow the class by havin converters 2 keep down cost may be u others that r complaining throw in a few bucks and we can increase the locations make it work and we can hav a great race class we hav all complained about NHRA and poor crowds and pdra has great crowds so lets try and build us another class and hav a place to race
    we all hav 2 pay 2 play n some form get real I wuld rather at least hav some input into the class than some suit in glendora
    gk
     
    #57
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  18. Sheppard racing

    Sheppard racing New Member

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    GK, I take it you have a full blown TAD? So you're willing to put a converter in it and have a 14-71 blower?
    Not trying to start shit, I'm just curious. And yes, there has to be a start. If this is the case, I wonder how many TAD 's would be willing to do this? And sometimes curiosity killed the cat!
     
    #58
  19. tad2155

    tad2155 Member

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    open outlaw

    actually didn't hav a clue wat I was gonna race I purchased a rolling TAD and was putting together our old TAD engine combo that we ran in 2004-2005 I had a bunch of leftover parts blk, heads actually wanted to do a nitro engine and do shows but found a good deal on a roots ssi roots blower and stuck a powerglide in it wen this came up probably want even b competitive but at least I can race heads up format and hav some fun i don't like bracket racing nhra killed the TAD class n the south so I am glad to help all I can
    gk
     
    #59
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  20. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    That's a hell of an attitude to grow a class. This is the rules, we paid for it and if you don't like it or can't conform, go sponsor your own series or class.

    From the outside looking in it looks like there isn't much concern in growing the class unless someone wants to build a purpose built car to run Mark McElwee's rules.

    You guys keep on referencing Pro Boost as your model. Pro Boost wasn't built from a real narrow set of rules, rather it took legal NHRA rules and loosened them to allow a broader group of cars to be able to come and race. Legal cars could come run, some outlaw cars could come run and it worked out because it had a broad base of cars available.
     
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