PDRA Quick 8 Dragster class - Why no screws?

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    The rumor is that PDRA is going to have an "Open Outlaw" 8 car heads up field at 5 races next year.

    I know there is a group of cars down in the southeast that run a few races based on an open set of rules, just no screw.

    I don't see why they don't let the screw in at a reduced overdrive. If this class takes off, it's going to take a 'guru' roots blower to run at the top of the pack. By guru I mean paying $20-$30k + to a blower guy to have a heavily modified trick of the week blower built to the rules.

    Aussie TAD's are a good example. 88 over on the PSI D rotor, they run mid to low 5.50's. That would be right on par with the 3.60s the top roots Open Outlaw cars are running.

    You might be able to pull some NHRA TAD cars over to run your class.

    The little guys will have a hell of a lot better of a chance staying competitive with a screw as an option. If this deal grows to a full touring class the 'price of poker' will go up pretty quick with a roots only deal. A throw-down guru blower goes for $30k+. If you put a custom paint job on the case of your PSI you couldn't spend that much. Not to mention the cost of ownership is lower.

    The Open Outlaw deal in Bradenton and a few other local venues isn't a bad deal. If this is going to become a national deal, they should consider more of a big picture frame of mind.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    Are turbos allowed or is this going to be strictly a roots deal? A lot of those top dragster guys run 526 cu in stuff, maybe have a reduced engine size, reduced OD for the screws?
     
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  3. drn1013rd

    drn1013rd Member

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    screws

    I talked to one of the owners at the pri show (sorry I cant remember his name) I think Gene but anyway he said they were gonna have an open class for exhibiton purposes only at just a few of the races and it was run what you brung screw clutch whatever, he said he would know more after the meeting but never got a chance to see him again.
     
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  4. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Pdra

    If this class happens....... The purpose was to have a place where TD cars could run heads up. That being said, the reason to not include screws ( even with reduced od ) was simple. The engine combos chosen could be left as is and plugged into a pro boost car or pro nitrous car. The PDRA does not want to have to police a set of diverse rules and od limits. Yes, a great roots blower can be expensive but with no od limits you do not need to spend 30,000 for a Janis blower set to make max boost at low od. As far as turbos...... Probably will follow pro boost limits until shown to have large advantage over NOS and roots blowers. Screw blowers can race NHRA TAD and TD . The problem with a screw is a good C rotor is hard to find. You can order a new one from PSI and it will not be a top five blower , maybe a number ten off of a set of cutters. A good used c rotor is over 17000.00 if you can find one. Was told that Ken Veney ordered a new screw once and brand new it made 10 pounds less boost than Manzo's new screw. At least with a roots you have several places to buy one from not just one supplier. East of the Mississippi there are plenty of cars with NOS , roots and turbos so having a full field should not be a problem. Class ( if it happens ) is open to funny cars with clutch or convertor, altereds, front engined dragsters, and rear engined dragster with a convertor ( blown... Roots 14/71 max, NOS, or turbos). 14/71 is the max blower size and there may be a rule for NO billet cases to help limit costs of blowers. Should be a great class with a great organization where racers are treated like they are appreciated.
     
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  5. Eric Vollmer

    Eric Vollmer Member

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    I understand not wanting to police o.d. limits on roots vs screw blown entries but how come none of the outlaw quick 8 style races allow blown dragsters to run clutches? Converter technology is so good now that I don't see how running a clutch could be conceived as an advantage especially in a 1/8 mile race but yet the rules usually specify blown cars need to run a converter. I would have a strong interest in running these races but I have a roots blown dragster with a clutch. Could anyone give insight why a dragster with a roots blower and a clutch should be excluded?
     
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  6. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Yes..... The original TD rules from the IHRA ( who started the class) was all rear engine dragsters had to run a convertor. I'm told I was to keep back marker TAD cars from crossing over with a roots instead of a screw. The PDRA in their haste to establish a set of rules for TD adopted the NHRA rules for TD instead of the IHRA rules. This will probably be amended for next year, if you have a screw car RED there is already a series to race in NHRA TAD. If the cost of blowers gets out of hand, for a guru blower, I could see the class having a claiming rule for the blower. Set a high limit price, say 15000.00, which is the cost of an M5 and allow racers to claim another racers blower for that price. We had this system in place when I road raced motorcycles and it kept racers in check money wise. No need to spend 8000.00 on a set of factory forks if a local yocal could cla them after a race for 1500.00.
     
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  7. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Will I just re read your post and understand where you are coming from. Yes racers, myself included, will spend stupid money on a trick of the week part sometimes. But over the past few years my car has been as quick as anyone with an out of the box stock ssi F3 14/71 blower. It wasn't exactly cheap , 9000.00, but certainly ont 30000,00. Either. I believe the lack of OD restrictions has negated the need for a high dollar one off blower. But as a side note..... There is nothing stopping a racer from buying a 20000,00 set of heads from a guru either,so I believe that a set of existing rules were chosen with no intent other than basing a heads up class off of a proven existing set of rules.
     
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  8. Eric Vollmer

    Eric Vollmer Member

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    I get that the rules were probably based on existing rules but it seems like there really isn't a set of standard Top Dragster rules anywhere. The original rules on IHRA top dragster outlaw days I believe didn't even allow big block hemi's to run a 14-71, they were required to run an 8-71. I was just putting it out there that it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal or advantage to run a blower motor with a clutch. A clutch car doesn't slow the slow down any and can be run side by side with a converter car. I don't see where anyone would say having a clutch for an 1/8 mile race is an advantage. I just think that nobody has ever taken the time to change the rules or look at them in detail. Even it Top Dragster bracket racing what difference does it make if a car runs a clutch or converter, you still have to put a dial in on it or in NHRA trim you can't run faster than 6.0. If they are going for a true outlaw quick 8 race I just thought it would be nice to have a choice to run a clutch.
     
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  9. Barry Ferriolo

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    Is the 6.0 limit the rule for all the organizations?
    What are the roots blower re-cert rules...if any...for all the organizations vs a screw blower
     
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  10. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    6.00 limit is NHRA rule for TD. Roots blowers do not cert the cases, probably have to cert the screw because of the very high od required.
     
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  11. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    1/8 et

    In NHRA Top Dragster you can go 6.00 in the 1/4 or 3.66 in the 1/8th. That's 5.5-5.6 territory there.

    I don't know what benefits, if any come from having an engine package that could go straight into a Pro Boost car? I mean how many dragster guys have taken their motor out of their car and went Pro Mod? I'm not going to say never, but it's certainly not the norm, or even remotely common.

    If counting pulleys is too hard to police, what can be policed? In an all roots class, you had better hope the tech guy can check things like rotor length, case length, opening, etc. There is a real easy set of measurements on the tip of the female rotor that you can tell the difference in a C and D if you made someone pull their hat.

    I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone, but just because you have overdrive doesn't mean that a modified blower won't be an advantage. I think it's a bit nieve to think that if it's a roots only class with little in the way of spec limitations that some heavily modded blowers will not be at the front of the pack. Then that $17,000 C blower will be a bargain. I really don't think C's should be allowed without severe overdrive limitations. D's are out there, new and used.

    Let me just throw this out there.

    The east coast roots outlaw dragsters can run 3.60s and maybe 3.50s with the right conditions
    A current legal TAFC runs 3.60s on a good 5.50 run.
    Aussie Top Alcohol Dragsters with small CID dragster motors and 88 over on a D run 3.60s and 5.50's.

    All of a sudden you have a pretty large pool of potential cars that should run 3.60's or better. You have all the makings of a real 'return' of Pro Comp.
     
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  12. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Pro Comp?...

    Now you want to see a Pro Comp return?... And 1/8th mile is acceptable?...

    I don't know you.

    Flash
     
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  13. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Once you race a while on the 1/8th mile it gets to be normal. Just as fun also
     
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  14. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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  15. REEHL EQUIPMENT

    REEHL EQUIPMENT Active Member

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    At the end of the day, we know only one set of rules will work, the best combo will rise to the top.

    Set the rules early, and don't change them.
     
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  16. Hokes Racing

    Hokes Racing Moderator

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    From what I have watched on TV of the PDRA money is not even a problem with most racers. It looks like a rich persons league. But man I am glad them have it Great to watch on the Internet.. And Jody you sure do run Fast
     
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  17. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Well...... We try hard, sometimes it works out
     
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  18. DQUES

    DQUES Member

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    This sounds interesting , any idea on when an announcement is coming ? .
     
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  19. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Pro Comp

    Cody,

    The difference in this deal and your deal is indexes.

    I just hate to see them pigeon hole this deal into a roots only deal.

    I understand the people and money behind making this class happen probably want a class for their type of cars.

    Thinking bigger picture, I think this could have a lot more cars available to it with a wider set of rules.
     
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  20. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    I hate that the term "index" is used to mean multiple things.

    In NHRA Competition Eliminator, an INDEX is used to determine the Staggered Start so that different classifications of cars can compete against each other fairly in 1 category. These are the types of "indexes" I designed the Power Adders class with. First to the end wins, REAL RACING.

    In NHRA SC, SG, 7.0 Pro INDEX means a set ET that limits how fast the car can go. This IS NOT real racing... It's bracket racing which is just a game played in cars on a drag strip.

    Now mixing supercharger types into 1 category creates an apples-oranges parity problem just like TAD. My class was "self correcting" with the index system. Instead of constant weight break modifications to keep everything fair.

    But remember, it's only 8 cars. If that's all the bigger they want the field to get, roots-only is probably a fine rule. I set up the Power Adders format to easily be able to attract a 32 car field of cars anywhere in the country. Targeted at the NHRA Divisional series.

    Spec. Superchargers would be the best solution. A simple cast 14-71 that is off the shelf and not allowed to be modified. But that requires more organization than people setting up the category are probably willing to put in. Bitching and complaining about the guy with the $30,000 blower when no one can keep up is the more likely path it will take.

    Flaah
     
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