New MSD Eight Coil Ignition System

Discussion in 'InsideTopAlcohol.com Tech Questions' started by Mike Canter, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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  2. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Active Member

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    I wonder if that’s what’s Stevie fast has been testing on the shadow and promod. Sure seems like the days of a mag are numbered. I ran FuelTech all last year and love it.
     
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  3. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    The question is what does it give you. We all are looking for more power. The only way an ignition system can give you more power is if the current system misfires in the current environment. If it does and the new ignition stops some or all of the misfire then you will get more power. I believe that if an ignition system has 5% to 10% misfire then you probable will not know it or hear it. They other thing about this new system is the reliability. If it means no more ProMag 44 Electronic Points Box failure that will be real great. It looks like it has an excellent self diagnostic system.
     
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  4. rb0804

    rb0804 Active Member

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    It gives you seven more coils to go bad. In all seriousness, one coil per cylinder is ideal right? We have a much short spark plug wire, with less resistance, so more spark makes it to the plug?

    I’m not sure why, but every team that I have seen change over to a coil near plug setup struggles for a little bit. In the end they always seem to end up running better than before the swap. It may entirely coincidental and it’s possible that they changed other things as well that made them inconsistent, and eventually pick up. I haven’t been close to anyones program that has made the switch, I would like to hear some real world input on this one, no so much the new MSD deal, but the coil near plug in general.

    Mike, on a miss fire are you meaning that the coil itself might be misfiring? Isn’t the racepak optic sensor supposed to pickup each time the coil fires? How often have you had points box failures?



    Good topic on promag coils, points boxes and such.
    http://www.insidetopalcohol.com/threads/pro-mag-44-ignition-issues-experiences.59750/
     
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  5. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Nope, I am saying that not every time the spark goes to the plug does it ignite the fuel mixture in the cylinder. This is why over the years new and improved ignition systems have been developed.
     
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  6. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Active Member

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    When I was thinking of changing I started to question some things like why doesn’t a turbo car use a mag anymore? Or a Procharger car? Then I realized that the mag is built for nitro engine and was design in the 70s. Have we not advanced since then ? When I made my change I was scared as hell. Throwing away everything I knew and starting over. And I seen the horror stores About it being setup wrong and kicking the rods on the burnout, two step, etc. but when we finally went to start it. FuelTech walked me thru every step to guarantee success. I made the choice to use them after talking with Brandon pesz. And he said that never would he go back. That it’s the same coils on the car from day 1 and it’s been 3 years! Can’t say anything will last that long in a mag setup! Also the fake points boxes or Chinese coils failing almost instantly. And you have to trouble shoot your own stuff, why? Or own 3 complete ignition system in the trailer ? I couldn’t afford that. After making 4 runs we were already faster to the 330 than I ever been with the exact same combo from last season. And I don’t have to carry one single spare ignition part. It’s self diagnosing and if a trouble code or anomaly happens it’s logged and isolated. How do you beat that. I can text anyone from FuelTech and ask what it is and get an instant response. I unloaded all my Msd stuff before it became a clutch and you’d never get rid of it. That why I made the change.
     
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  7. rb0804

    rb0804 Active Member

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    To touch on your mis Fire theory, there really isn’t an easy way to tell if an engine fired or mis fired. A lot of the OEM’s now days are able to pin point which bank and cylinder has an issue, so I did a little research and Saab has been using technology that they refer to as Ion Sensing since the early 90’s. They use the spark plug to sense ions in the combustion chamber after combustion. This seems like it could be the check and balance we would be looking for to ensure that each cylinder is not only firing, but not detonating either. Maybe the technology hasn’t caught up to us racers yet.


    Interesting read:

    https://www.searchautoparts.com/mot...vice-repair/making-sense-ion-sense-technology
     
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  8. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    ...........Very interesting
     
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  9. blowntrifive

    blowntrifive Member

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    Just did the same thing as you for next season, good to hear, power grid killed me and the motor once never again!
     
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  10. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    So how did the Grid kill your motor?
     
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  11. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    I talked with Steve Jackson and they had the MSD 8000 coil near plug set up on the Shadow in Virginia when he reset the record. I'll have to double check but I'm pretty sure he had it on his NHRA car in St. Louis.

    Said he backed to back it with the mag in testing, made no tune up changes and it was slightly quicker with the coil set up.

    They are 'smart' coils. I was told MSD bench tested these for thousands of hours. If they get hot, they either turn themselves down or off.

    This system plug and plays with the grid. You have a few new settings to put in the General Settings tab of the Grid, and it's pretty plug and play from there.

    They are not legal for Top Alcohol (yet) but they are legal for Pro Mod, TD and TS.

    We are going to put it on the Kruse Missile TD and I'm going to put it on my FC Chaos car. A whole new set up with coils, cam sync plate (clamps in where the mag was) and hall effect sensor is just over the cost of a new generator.

    I like the idea of no RF from the mag, and if a coil fails, it drops a cylinder not all 8. Not to mention should fire much easier. Also lose the parasitic hp loss of driving the generator. Should be at least 10 lbs lighter than a mag 44 set up.
     
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  12. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Active Member

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    My whole setup lost about 20 lbs when the change over was done. FuelTech coils go rich when the battery voltage starts to drop. That’s their failsafe for coils. My only downfall I see is the FuelTech has to turn over 8 times before it will start. But they are working on a update for that.
     
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  13. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Hmmm, I've been saying coil near plug (CNP) is the way to go for about 19 years. Glad to see that others are catching on now.

    One small aspect does concern me though. If these are truly "Smart Coils" then a Smart Coil can fire of it's own will at a time that is not desirable. A "Dumb" coil is a better option, and will only fire when told to. I'll have to call them tomorrow to explore this further........

    Now picture 24 coils and 24 spark plugs :).
     
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  14. ta455

    ta455 Member

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