Need Help With AFR For A Procharger Alcohol SBC

Hi, I am new to the site,and there is some great info on here,I have learned alot about alcohol,as this is the first time we are running it,we just got the motor fired last week. I was wondering if somebody could tell me what the target AFR would be for a 434 SBC with Trick Flow 18* heads(360+ cfm),C&S Blow-Thru alcohol carburetor with electronic bowls,10-1 compression(a little low for methanol,but will work good for drag radials),279/283 dur. .050" .776"/.776" lift,112* lobe seperation,108* intake centerline installed at 110*,and a Procharger F-1R maxed out,probably around 20# of boost,2 1/8" headers dual 4" exhaust. The car is a 91 Trans Am drag radial car,will weigh around 3500# race weight. The motor should make 12-1300hp.

Can someone help me out with what the AFR would be close,I do understand that all combo's want something different,but I would like to get an idea of what would be close. Also what Widebands are compatable with alcohol,like maybe in the $800.00 range,just to start with.

Thank You!! Brian

 

Dyno Jet Wide Band II for about $250 includes PSI and RPM datalogging. Can also add a gage or LCD screen. What kind of ignition do you have?

 

Thanks for the reply,Ignition is a Digital 7 Programmable 7535,MSD HVC II coil #8261,MSD 8.5 Super Conductor plug wires,RCD Engineering crank hub w/degree ring and magnets,MSD Crank Trigger sensor,and MSD 8489 crank trigger distributor. Plugs are NGK R5671A-9's. TurboStart 16 Volt system.

 

Here are 4 more, I have not personally used any of these but I have done some research for my sprint car neighbor.

My concerns have been; are they RFI/EMI compatible and will they work with alky a/f ratios?

http://www.altronicsinc.com/
http://www.computechracing.com/Product_Guide/dataacquisition.html
http://www.exhaustgas.com/
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

The msd 7 is less noisy than a mag, so that's good.

 

The wideband will be a helpful tool, but the best one will be to learn reading the spark plug. Mike Canter has a helpful article to get you started.
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/reading-alcohol-spark-plugs.html

The actual plug reading is the most important.

Blessings...........Ron Clevenger.

 

Thanks for the replys everybody, mike's article is a great article, I printed it off. We have been talking with Randy at RPM about a data logger, and he recommended the DL-10, and for everything we were wanting to log, he quoted me a price of 1424.00, which probably isn't bad at all,that includes all sensors and cables needed, and the pro software, but we are looking for somthing in the 8-900 dollar range to start with.I told him we wanted to log 1 afr, 1 egt, fuel pressure, tire spin, boost pressure, and engine rpm, but I might have to rethink this to keep the cost down, we can always upgrade later. What would you guys log for just a basic setup to keep the cost down? The most important? Would like to have the 1424.00 setup he quoted me, but just don't think we can swing that much money right now. Thank you

 

I don't think you can afford not to.

Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

I agree with Ron C on being a good plug reader. The one thing the plug doesn't tell you is at what RPM is that reading.

If you can read the plugs and the simple data logger can tell you (EGT or O2) at what RPM you are getting that reading, than you are ahead of where you are today. In order to make fuel system changes it is really helpful to also be able to relate fuel psi to RPM. So for a bare bones data logging system, my vote goes for data logging: Engine RPM, EGT(1 cyl is better than none and 8 is best) or O2 and fuel psi.

Oh, wanted to also mention that some of the loggers I listed have limited psi collection capabilites (they were setup for MAP vs high fuel psi)

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks for the info,yea being a good plug reader is something we are gonna have to learn,because we have never ran alcohol before,but I have heard they are acually easier to read than a gasoline plug,so I guess thats a plus,It's hard to pass up that $1424.00 setup,but just don't see how we can afford it right now,it has took us 3 years to get the motor built,I also seen that FAST sells a AFR meter for Meth with dual wide band sensors #170608,anybody know anything about this setup?the cheapest I found it so far is $396.00 from D&F Performance,if these are valid prices,around $440.00 from summit I believe.

Again,thanks alot,any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

what do you guys think of the Innovate DL-32 Data Logger? I found a new kit on ebay,it is Innovate #3782-DP,says it comes with the Innovate DL-32 Data Logger,and following sensors, 1 wideband O2 sensor (LC-1),Engine RPM,Drive Shaft Speed,Fuel Pressure(your choice of pressure sensor),Boost Pressure(your choice of pressure sensor),and a G meter. For $699.00,it's supposed to have 32 channels,so i suppose I could add the EGT's later right? Another thing I didn't know about is if it will read low enough for blown alcohol Air/Fuel ratio's,don't know much about the LC-1. We currently own a Innovate LM-1,but I'm sure it wont work with alcohol.

What do you guys think??

 

I would call Innovate and ask, are they RFI/EMI compatible and will they work with alky a/f ratios?

 

I have a DL-32 and I'm not happy with it. We could never get it to record everytime; it was hit & miss. The sampling rate is low also. We are putting back on the new set up and re-doing the wiring. If we have any more issues, it's going into the trash can.

 

thanks for all the help,I have been talking with a guy that is a Innovate dealer,and he said that it reads only a gasoline scale,so it probably wont read in the range I need for alcohol,but he said he uses it on his alcohol F-2 motor,and he said his shows a 9.5-1 at idle,which he said was around a 4.0-1 when converted for alcohol. It sounds as if the $1424.00 system from RPM would be very best for us,we may just have to sell everything we can,and try to scrape up the money to get it,but I imagine it will take awhile

 

mike,
the lm-1 that i used to have , went down to .59 Lambda

mechanical injection , turbo , methanol here

 

sounds a little strange, i use a lc-1 and in the software there are a meny where you can select wich fuel scale you want to use and meth is one of them. but as he says you can use the gas scale, i do that in my blown e85 sbc, we tuned it to 11.5 afr (that would be around 9 or something like that when using a e85 scale) where it was as fatest without starting to lose power like it did at 11. good luck!

 

just thought I would give everybody an update,we went ahead and bought the RPM Performance data logger,we found a used one,but got a good deal on it. It logs engine rpm,driveshaft rpm,came with 2 pressure sensors,1 acellerometer,battery voltage,and all 8 EGT's. Don't have it installed yet,just thought I would let you all know what I ended up going with.

Thanks again for all the help!!