KB/ Brad block questions

OK, I am not a hemi guy so bear with me.
If a guy just wanted to build a low hp "generic" hemi piece to run bracket stuff... what does he buy? Like 500 ish inch, alcohol, only 1000 hp.
Block deck height... std, +.100, -.400 05 .500 or whatever?
Whos block? Main size? There are so many variables out there floating around.
And tons of good used stuff.
Heads? Then manifold with that?
Thanks
Wags

 

I usually don't try to answer these questions as it's like trying catch a greased pig--------- that being said, if you don't know what parts from what time line fit each other--

DO NOT start picking up hemi parts one at a time as you will surely end up selling off your mistakes and they will be many--

Sometimes the smartest thing to do is buy a running combination, more $$ up front buy less re runs later.

 

I agree with Mark, at least figure out a combination before you start buying (bore X stroke, head type, deck height, etc..).
I've sold off my mistakes (not at a profit...) figuring out a combination and making it work. I know the cost of complete is a chunk of money, but lots cheaper in the long run if it's a proven combination.
I like the KB blocks but unfortunately good ones are getting fewer and KB doesn't have them readily available. The KB stuff fits on the BAE, but not TFX, and there's different versions of TFX.... once you pick your path it's expensive to change coarse. Do some research.
Eric Brand had some BAE short blocks he was selling on here awhile back that would probably be a good start - 526 4 3/8" square, fathead.
Best to stay with standard main, standard lifter. At 500 - 526" I like standard deck. The BAE fathead stuff has been good to me and available. Joe

 

All good advice. Do research, try to stay with standard parts ( stroke, bore size, bearing journals, deck hight). If you keep it all pretty standard, parts are easier to find and usually cheaper.

The alternative results in many headaches and a lighter wallet.

 

He said a hemi for bracket racing. How quick can you get back in the lanes with no cooling system ? Would he be limited to a true water block and heads ?

 

OK, lets start over. Boat bracket stuff. So, 4 passes a day. I am doing it now, just fine with a dart block, dart cast heads, and a 10-71 driven all the way up to +4%. Not a typo. So, it isn't a power thing... just a cool thing.
I know almost nothing about hemi variants.
I would stick with something in the 4.250 x 4.250 range. The goal would be total shelf parts. Break a part today, another one is there tomorrow.
So, at this point.. I am info gathering, NOT parts gathering.
And IF I decided to do this.. Amos Saterlee tunes a buddies boat, so he probably could send me in the right direction. (I believe he knows a little about this stuff) I just didn't want to bother him with basic BS.
So, with a pretty short stroke (4 to 4.25---even 4.375) is there any reason for the 10.7 ish deck? I know... long rod, but jeez. The "short" deck is 10.225 ish? 4.310 bore looks common as 4.375.
Is the std. hemi mains the 2.750"?
So, it seems as Brad stuff is the most common. TFX more of the odd ball?
We will stick with short block dumb questions for now. Oil pans swap? Gear drives? Boat, so engine is backwards and needs a boat specific pan. Oil pumps swap?
Wags

 

You may ask Amos on the block VS stroke depending on what stroke you decide on. Seems the short deck comes into play with less than 4" stroke somewhere (I always thought boats liked the torque of the big stroke).
Larger bores are becoming more common (4.375 up). Yes the standard main is 2.750.
Your BAE and KB oil pans and gear drives will interchange (raised cam different than std), but not with TFX which has a couple of different versions (92 and 96??). I'm sure someone more versed on TFX could tell you more. I believe oil pumps are pretty standard fitment on all.
Dan Olson can make you a nice boat pan to your specifacation. I think Ishimaru has one for sale (KB/BAE).
Header flanges will be different for everything out there as well.
Doesn't sound like you plan on pushing the combination - some old fuel headed stuff would work fine in PM, 8 or 9 second deal if it's all "just a cool thing".
Definitely do research, switching over from Chevy based power, Chrysler is a whole different deal (did it...). Roger Way would also be a good resource for putting something together for you.
It's not much, but I hope it helps. Joe

 

All helps.
So, are most running chrysler rod journals (I assume) or do guys step down to BBC
Boats like a long stroke, but it only takes 800 hp ish to run 8's. I ran the 8's for years with a filled 468" 4" stroke BBC. PM probably takes 1500 ish. So, some power, but not tons.
Even with a short deck (10.225) and a 4.25 stroke you can toss in a long rod. (have to do the math). But this is why I am asking. Oh, and I don't know what a "regular" compression height would be with a hemi type piston. I assume rpm range will determine necessary rod length also. We only turn 7500 ish through the lights.
Wags

 

Thought about putting Arias heads on your chevy? Hemi "cool", chevy wallet....
It sounds like your not hurting what you have, stepping into the chrysler is usually because you've found the limits in your chevy.
Or a crate hemi? Not trying to discourage, just throwing it out there. KB, BAE, TFX deals are like little Exxon Valdez'..... messy but they work.

 

I would stick with something in the 4.250 x 4.250 range. The goal would be total shelf parts. Break a part today, another one is there tomorrow.

.. Amos Saterlee tunes a buddies boat, so he probably could send me in the right direction. (I believe he knows a little about this stuff) I just didn't want to bother him with basic BS.

So, with a pretty short stroke (4 to 4.25---even 4.375) is there any reason for the 10.7 ish deck? I know... long rod, but jeez. The "short" deck is 10.225 ish? 4.310 bore looks common as 4.375.

Is the std. hemi mains the 2.750"?

So, it seems as Brad stuff is the most common. TFX more of the odd ball?

Oil pans swap? Gear drives? Boat, so engine is backwards and needs a boat specific pan. Oil pumps swap?

Arias makes a somewhat shelf blown alky piston for a std 170cc chamber in 4.280, 4.310, and 4.375 fairly cheap and you can get two at a time instead of usual 4 minimums. They might also have one for the fathead style, but would try to finalize piston style to match your head choice, seems like rods are a lot easier to come by in non-standard configs. Last set I got from GRP only took 10 days and it wasn't even a rush order and it was far from a std. length...(7.445".....lol, thats another story...)

Got to meet "Famous" a few times at Augusta in the late 80's when all of the west coast boats came east for Augusta and High Point. Can't remember now who he was with, either Tom Black, Bob and Jerry Fulgham, Braaksma, Etc. ,man, hadn't thought of those names in years, but it was Dragboat Disneyland when those guys came to town.

The 4.250" cranks were a lot more plentiful back in the mid to late 80's and would still be my choice if buying new, but there won't be many on the used market now. Probably more 4.15" cranks out there now, just have to be careful not to get a lightweight N/A unit even though at the levels you're talking about you don't necessarily need a $3000 Bryant either. The standard 10.7 deck blocks are going to be a little easier to find and a little cheaper than the 10.2" although as was said above, if you can find a complete deal from a T/AD guy in your area you might be ahead in the long run. You will definitley pay more up front though. That being said, if can you find a good older fuel head combination, it will pull you as fast as you want to go if you're running Pro Eliminator. I was running a 4.280"X4.250" Milodon block/KB 10-bolt water head, 10-71 in a direct drive Kurtis 501 in the 6.50 index class, ran quickest of 6.32@181, usually only checking valves and plugs between rounds.

Yes, std. mains are 2.750" the fuel cranks are up to 3.00" now but they are all 4.500".

Brads and KB's use same pans and gear drives, TFX uses different pans and drives.
Milodon made a dual line V-Drive pan, I was running a 10 degree box and had to cut a tunnel to clear prop shaft. Just have to move pickup to front (back) of pan....lol

 

If you are planning on asking Amos to help you tune it, do HIM a favor and call him BEFORE you spend a $ !

He will be happier and more willing to help if you start out with what he told ya to get, instead of you buying something that's a deal---- and then asking-------- can you help me with the tuneup ?

If you trust him to tune it--- trust him to help you buy the right thing the first time , eh ?

 

do your self a favor..get a raised cam block...std. deck..dave

 

See, there is info. I would not buy anything wihtout Amos saying buy...I am just kicking it around, but info gathering.
I worked on the Speed Sports boat in Texas a couple weeks ago. They were short on crew and I got the call to be the B team. Amazing how fast a hemi can be yanked apart and back together. Hell, can't do a chevy valve train that fast.
So, I have access to some stuff.
I know there are tons of fuel heads floating around. Is it half assed to use the with a huge ass dome piston? Seems like it would be, but maybe not.
Wags

 

If you were trying to run 9500-10,000 maybe so, but for what you're doing (7500) and you've got access to some fuel heads that havn't been blown up several times, you'd be many dollars ahead by going that route, don't believe me, start pricing Brad-5 rocker gear and manifolds, valve covers, etc. Don't get me wrong, the fathead stuff is definitely essential, "IF" you're wanting to run big numbers in class racing, but index or bracket like you're doing, if you shop wisely, you can put a fuel head Hemi together for half to 2/3rds of what a -5 fathead will cost and have an easy 1200-1400 HP. The pistons I mentioned a couple of posts up are in the 760 gram range and give an easy 11.5 comp/ratio with a 170cc head. Fuel pistons aren't much lighter than that. I'm shifting 7500-7800 with my nostalgia deal with much more stroke than what you're planning(4.625) on same rod bearings for two years, around 40 1/4mile passes. Guess my point in all of this, you can build a mild fuel head combination, (compression,11 or less) (.750" max cam,) valve spring,blower OD, that will run all day long at the speed you're looking for with a very low maintenance.

 

Great info. I know rockers are high $$
I will check out aries shelf stuff.
Wags

 

I think most people try to stick with the chrysler crank pins, but I went down to the bbc 2.200 journals to clear a 4.500 stroke in a std height cam block, its still a close deal but it clears.

 

So, raised cam blocks are a stroke clearance function like BBC.. nothing fruit like shorter pushrod or something else?
I assume 4.150 stroke will fit in anything and when stepping up to 4.5 it takes a raised cam block?
Is there a std. raised cam height?
Wags

 

A lot depends on what you're building, if N/A with steel rods and Chevy crank pin, a 4.500" will work in a stock cam location block, and you can make it work with Chrysler pins and aluminum rods but it usually takes a special profiled rod and small base circle cam and a lot of careful measuring during assembly. If you don't think you'll ever go that large of a stroke, a standard cam location block is fine, and less expensive, raised cam gear drives, 48 degree cams will cost you more, and a 1/4" shorter pushrod is not enough reason to go to raised cam expense. Also to answer your earlier question, not sure if there is a regular compression height hemi piston anymore. The one I use is 1.428" and Arias has others ranging from 1.39 to 1.60 listed, of course they can make anything you want, but those are the "shelf pistons" I mentioned earlier that you can usually get fairly quickly.

http://www.ariaspistons.com/products/chrysler.html

Scroll down about half of the page.