Its time for 97% or more blower in TAD

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    the dog

    you know steve, i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt just for the fact you haven't known me for very long.

    and to answer you cody, i guess you're in the same boat you haven't known me very long.

    so to inform you and everyone else...

    if any of you think i'm getting rich off this site, the pairity debate or anything to do with alcohol racing, think again.

    i have followed the alcohol classes very closely, and dreamed of competing in them ever since i can remember.

    my dad raced in pro comp in an a/fuel car. so a/fuel has a spot in my heart.

    i grew up at the track going to races with jay meyer. so blown cars have a place in my heart.

    as a ten year old, i couldn't wait for the new issue of national dragster to come in so i could keep up with what was happening in the alcohol classes. i used to use my lawn mowing money so i could call 1900 nhra now to get daily results before we had the internet. then one day darrell russell told me about compuserve and getting race results on this thing called the internet. i went and found a computer and subscribed to compuserve so i could stay on top of, you guessed it, the alcohol classes.

    when i joined the us army after high school, jay started racing again towards the end of my enlistment. i begged, borrowed, wheeled and dealed so i could get off to go racing.

    i paid my own way through college. thats why i had to go in the army. i wanted to learn business so i could know that side of the sport. i've been very fortunate to have the right doors open up. i worked hard, and i was fortunate enough to be able to work for some of the smartest people in the business and i'll tell anyone the three biggest influences/teachers in my racing career have been tom conway, stacy mclemore and my dad.

    i started this site (formerly known as insidefmracing.com) june 26, 2001 because i was sick of the lack of coverage the alcohol cars get. it wasn't due to an untapped gold mine business opportunity, thats for damn sure. matter of fact, i was the laughing stock of the racing internet community for limiting myself to the alcohol cars because nobody cared about them anyway.

    i have busted my ass with countless hours into this site, and limped by paycheck to paycheck for a long time. now it's starting to grow. still not rich, but it shows enough promise that it will be around for a while.

    i have a bachelors of business administration in general business, and carried a 3.0 throughout racing every weekend. i could be making a hell of a lot more money than i am now, even if there was a parity problem in tafc and ihra tafc too. (boy i'd have enough to race top fuel then)

    so what's my dog in this? i race tafc right? my dog is i love this sport, and i love the alcohol classes. this site is around because of the love, not the money. if it was all about money, i would just ride the fence like a good politician to keep from pissing anyone off, so i could make more money. wouldn't it just be smarter to stir the pot with an alter ego. no, i stand behind my statements, and you know where you stand.

    so if something happens in the future that the a/fuelers don't have a chance, i'll stick up for them. if you've paid any attention at all to this site, i've been for a factored system since the beginning of the season.

    alot of people just want to use the alcohol classes to move up to the fuel ranks, and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. but i'll tell you two just like i've told many people before, i don't care if i ever make it to the fuel ranks, if i can achieve greatness in the alcohol ranks, like a tom conway, as a driver and a tuner, i'll be happy. this isn't my stepping stone, it's my home.

    ask anyone that has known me for a while, and they will tell you. i've loved these cars since day one.

    long live top alcohol
    long live a/fuel
    long live the blown alcohol dragster.
    long live top alcohol funny car.

    i want to see these cars go to the next level, and i plan on spending a lifetime trying.

    sincerely,
    will hanna
     
    #41
  2. John Haley

    John Haley Alcohol Dragster

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    Will is not creating any controversy. It is already there for all to see. The a/fuel cars again do have the upper hand and i'm sure there will be a rule change. 90 percent and mufflers for a/fuel ( no whining )

    As far as having a dog in the fight, Will has been involved in the dog fight for a long time.

    Steve, if your mom or dad were being attacted by a dog and Will was the only one around to see it why should he try to save them. After all it's not his dog or mom or dad. The reason is some wrong is being done and someone needs to step up and help, that is what good people do and they do not need any other reason than wanting to do the right thing.

    Like any other class NHRA will try to level the playing field.
     
    #42
  3. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

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    May she rest in peace

    Ironic that the seat Steve has been sitting in was occupied by one of the staunchest supporters of the blown alcohol cars.
     
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  4. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Steve,
    You should think twice before attacking Will over his racing politics. He has paid so many more dues in the alcohol classes than you have even thought of yet. He has also always spoke up for the side that needed attention, be it blown alky or injected nitro. This sight is a great thing for anyone in the Top Alcohol classes, and I for one am greatful to Will for doing this.
    And if you are trying to deny the AF/D advantage, I will lose some of the respect that I have for you. It is obvious, and those that try to keep the smokescreen up are wearing thin on the nerves.
    Like Will stated, I am a longtime member of the classes, and plan on staying here for a long time to come. If you want to go on to Top Feul, I wish you the best of luck, but don't help screw up our class on the way through.

    Cody,
    Tom Conway is a great racer. I have the utmost respect for him, and consider him a friend. But I don't agree with your arguments. Since I had a screw blower, Tom's blown car never beat me head to head. But I've sure gotten tired of his umpteen A-Fuel cars driving around me a the big end.

    Great analogy Mr. Haley.

    This subject is so very near to my heart, and if I mispoke or hurt anyones feelings, I apologize now.

    Marty
     
    #44
  5. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Like John Haley and Marty have stated Steve, No One here is starting the controversy. It is here.
    Being a journalist and a huge TA fan for a long time, it is the job of both my self and Will to be as unbiased as possible. Much Like Will, this class is dear to my heart, and I eat sleep and drink it.
    When on of the two types of cars takes heat I tend to support the other and visa versa.

    If anyone out there think the two cars are on an even keel, than they have blinders on.
    Why did your car owner decide on the A/Fuel car and not the blown car?
    Easy Answer in three parts:
    1. Costs less to run/

    2. It has more potential in the tune up

    3. It is about a tenth quicker in condition below 3000 feet (Where most of the races are run).

    The ex-owner of the car you drive talked to me at length about the two types of cars, and she stated to me if she had the choice she would pick the Blown car hands down, but she wanted to be competitive or have the advantage at the majority of events she attended.

    She also was upset with me for a few years from 1999 to 2002 because she felt I sided with the A/Fuelers too much back then. Then she saw me take more sides with the blown cars as the disparity became more and more evident, and she understood where I was coming from. Will is much the same as me in this aspect.

    If you choose to think that there is no disparity between the two types of cars then your vision is so tunnelled is it pointless to debate this topic. But I am guessing you know that is not true.
    You and every A/Fuel driver out there, who has a strong running car, have every right to defend your ride, and there is no ill will held against you.
    I actually feel alot of sympathy for the middle of the pack A/Fuel teams (like Kevin Brown, Larry Miersch, Mark Niver: no offence guys!) and many other who still have yet to figure out the 98%.
    If the rule changes to a graduated % based on elevation or just get lowered to 96 or 97, then those teams will struggle even more. While teams like yours (thank god for Tom Conway right!) Rill Reichert, Gene Snow, and the other top teams may struggle for one or two events, then it will back to normal for you.

    That is why percentage should not change and the OD rule or the gizmo lower should be allowed. I guarantee you all the teams that strongly pursue division and national titles that have a blower car, want that blower, they don't want to slow down the A?Fuelers.

    This year’s start to the season is a classic example of how the A/Fuelers got a handle on the % change.

    At the first couple events, Blown cars were top three qualifiers and actually won a couple events.

    From the end of the first 1/3 of the season to the end the A/Fuelers were absolutely dominant.
    12 # 1 qualifiers and 11 wins compared to 4#1's and five wins mostly in the first half of the season.

    Call me if you would like to talk more about this deal and my side to the story

    604 826 5775

    Dean Murdoch, SpeedZone Magazine.com
     
    #45
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2005
  6. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

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    It occurred to me that when 96% was first proposed and tested in Vegas. Weren't the hydrometers inaccurate and they were actually trying to test at 94% not 96%? If so they actually got 4% back as the result of their initial protest not 2%. Also it is largely ignored that the test bed was an altitude track. I hear Denver always mentioned as the breaking point even though no cars are run there anyway at the Mile High Nationals.
     
    #46
  7. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Dean, I am one of the guys who definately had problems with the 98% rule and I agree with you 100 % that NHRA should give the blown guys the blower or what ever they need to step the performance up to the same level as the a- fuel cars. I also agree with Will about factoring the nitro percentage
    for the corrected altitude and temp. One major problem is that when the blown cars step it up at below 2500 feet adjusted alt. They will be dominate at anything above that unless you give the nitro cars back some percentage.
    The problem with all this is it is subjective and relies on someone to make the call. Unfortunately this would prob. create even more controversy. I for one am tired of the rule changes allways made with the purpose of slowing down the a-fuel cars to the point of just saying forget it. There are thoese of us in the class that are true sportsman racers and do it for the love of the sport and competetion. Unfortunatly everytime there is a rule change on the a-fuel the middle of the pack guys suffer because they don't have the big budgets
    to get out and make 50 laps in Jan & Feb. to get it figured out. By the time some or most do the season is over and they are looking at more change.
    As long as there are two different fuels in this class there will always be an advantage by one or the other.
     
    #47
  8. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    There are maybe 3 or 4 A Fuel runners who have figured it out...and if NHRA whacks the entire class, the slower racers (me included) get screwed and have wasted a ton of money in testing this year that would become all for not, now, I feel that we should focus on promotion of the class so we can all get some much needed sponsor dollars rolling in and then the rule chages won't hurt as much.

    Please remember that the slow AFD racers are in the very same boat as the fast blown cars.

    It has taken me the entire year (10 races) to run in the .40's so I for one think it very unfair to hit us with a rule change. I have never professed to hold the answers on this subject more just an opinion on how not to hurt the small guys.

    Peace, Kevin
     
    #48
  9. LaDon

    LaDon New Member

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    Thanks Will for doing a great job and just because some of the ppl dont look at it in that way dont stop it. I have been working on a blower car for 4 years now for 2 different teams and there is a problem. I feel for ppl like Kevin and I dont remember who the other guy was that is in the middle of the pack for the afuel cars. I think that the majority of us would like to see the rules changed just enough that we can run 20s. Even if we cant make the teens like the afuel cars can that still is not that often of a run that happens with that we couldnt live with that. I am with Marty here comments that are being made I will start losing respect too. All we want is to be able to go to the line with a 50/50 shot at winning the race. Even if they do give us the blower and a few other things working through a trans and gear ratio is gonna make tire shake show up a little more and will narrow the tuning window. I wish that everyone would work at finding an answer to the problem instead of coming up with selfish imature idiotic comments and help the class to prosper.
     
    #49
  10. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    no spin zone

    only 3 or 4 huh? conway tunes 4 or more cars himself, and i would say there's at least another 5 or more cars out there that run pretty damn good at 98.

    let's unspin some of these comments that the sky will fall in on the a/fuel cars with one more percent. if you have made progress learning how to run on 98%, it's not like everything will be 180 different with one less percent of nitro.

    i'm not trying to call anyone out here, but most of the 'middle of the pack' a/fuelers were 'middle of the pack' a/fuelers at 100%. that's the point, we're drag racing here. if you're a middle of the pack a/fueler, you shouldn't be able to run with a 'top of the pack' blown car.

    i mean how do you make any realistic comparisons 'taking the top 4 cars out.' take the top blown cars out of the equation then....i mean come on.

    if they hit the a/fuel cars next year and nobody can run, i'll push for the a/fuel cars. i'm for parity here. the last few years, pushing for parity has put you on the blown side of the fence.
     
    #50
  11. bulldog6

    bulldog6 A/Fuel #4

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    Looking on to 2006..

    We'll see what they do. Everyone has opposite opinions and there is nothing anyone can do at this point. All we can do is wait. So let's quit arguing and look at the bright side. At least we'll be racing next year. Whatever the % is.

    Can't wait and will see you all in a few months. Have a great winter.

    T.H
    A/F#4- (2006)
     
    #51
  12. A/Fuel&HisMoney

    A/Fuel&HisMoney Jr. Dragster

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    I know, but the waiting is the hardest part! I would much rather see the blown guys go faster than the fuel guys go slower!
     
    #52
  13. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I disagreee Will, that middle of the pack A/Fuelers are the same middle of the pack cars under 98%.

    The couple i mentioned earlier were top half qualifiers before, You can even put Ashley Force, Duane Shields, Dave Hirata (before the Gunderson car and tune up), Darryl Hitchman and Richard Bourke to name a few are nowthe middle packs guys now and they were in the top 1/3 of the class last year.

    Percentage is not the right option, give the BAD guys technology.

    But I know in NHRA's wisdom they will screw this up and take % away from the A/fuelrs.

    Too bad they are not getting it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dean (I hope I eat my words) Murdoch
     
    #53
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2005
  14. Codeman4318

    Codeman4318 New Member

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    Will,
    If you read my quote, I never said you were getting rich. I simply was trying to say that it was good for business for you to be in the middle of it. And as you stated you don't know me very well either and if you did you would know that I would not do anything intentionaly to make you or anyone mad or hurt anyones feelings. I've already been scolded for what I wrote last night. I finally jump on your site and say something and say the wrong thing or say it the wrong way. Its so easy to misunderstand or to be misunderstood when you are writing and not talking face to face. I too love this sport and want this class to prosper. I've been involved in drag racing for about as long as you've been alive if I was guessing your age (25 years?) Longer than some, not as long as others. I was not fortunate enough to have my dad in the sport. Don't get me wrong, I have a great relationship with my dad and highly respect my dad, but my dad had no interest in motorsports until I got interested. My love for the sport is a love of my own and not one handed down to me. Alot of what I learned was the hard way and on my own. I spent most of that 25 years either bracket racing, super comp racing, or super quick racing. I was one of the ones that tried to get Craig to implement top dragster in D4 in 1999. The last four years before the last two years I spent as a tech official for IHRA in D4. Therefore I know a little, and I do mean a little about how tech works. Therefore I am confident that NHRA will assess things and make changes, if any, as they deem appropriate and necessary. And then we ("We" being the TAD class) will make changes, test, tune and race in 2006 according to those changes or we will not race. I too love this class and had just as soon finish out my racing racing career right here in this class as well, in what ever capacity that is. Guess just have to see what comes my way. When I say this Class, I mean Top Alchohol as a whole. Before having the opportunity to work with Paul, Shelly, and Tom I worked with Jimmy Jones. Heck of a guy! What more can you say about Jimmy. By the way, congrats to Jimmy and the rest of the Tremor gang on an oustanding year and their D4 Championship! Anyway, I too knew how Shelly felt about this class. This team paid the ultimate price before going on to win the championship. At times our success through the year was overshadowed by rumors of cheating, but mostly when we really started dominating by the need for changes in the rules. Maybe, just maybe, the success and the consistincy of this car was do to a team that poured more heart and soul into this championship than anyone can imagine. I know I can speak for at least half of the team when I say that and probably the whole team. Steve-O knows I love him like a brother, treat him half the time like a son, but most of all he's my friend, but he knows that this one was for Shelly.


    Marty,
    Didn't mean any disrepect. I was actually just trying to make light of the subject. Once again failed to get that across. Sorry!
    Sincerely,
    Codeman4318
    Cody Draper

    PS: 1. Just so its known, I've never said anything about rule changes one way or the other.
    2. I already tried sending a reply like this once and lost it some where, so if two show up, my apoligies now.
    3. I'll shut up now! Nuff Said! See you at the races!!
     
    #54
  15. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Cody,
    It's cool. It's just that you're not the only team putting 110% of yourselfes into your racing. You're just getting the best return on your investment.
    Great job this year,
    Marty
     
    #55
  16. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    How much whining will there be when NHRA says there are no rule changes for 2006? I'll bet that's what happens. No changes in TAD. The writings been on the wall for the last few years. If TAD is the NHRA busch series then they want Nitro in the tank. If you don't get that your really missing the boat.
     
    #56
  17. Lee Callaway

    Lee Callaway The Gov

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    I can see this being like a bar room billards game all is fun until some one takes it personal .
     
    #57
  18. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    personal

    I think that's a good point Lee. We all have strong feelings about this, because this is a sport we all love. Why the hell else would we all spend our off time working???

    Cody, that's a good point about text dialogue vs. verbal. Here on a message board you don't have the benefit of the way a message is presented in person to interpret it, hence the term 'taken out of context.'

    In saying that, I just hope people realize that I'm just trying to make points that I think are valid. I'm not going after anyone personally. As much as some of you may disagree, I have nothing against A/Fuel.
     
    #58
  19. Steve Torrence

    Steve Torrence Jr. Dragster

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    the way that i look at this situation... NHRA is going to make there decision whether we like it or not. Nobody has ever heard me say anything about the percentage rule either for or against it and if someone disagrees i would like to know. You guys are very correct when you say that i havent paid my dues and by no means do i think i have. i am very aware that i am in the position im in now soley because of the great team that i have been able to become a part of. i get on this website from time to time just to see what everyone is saying and have noticed that you are a large advocate of the percentage change and honestly questioned your reasoning. i can see your point and im fine with that i had no intentions of that comment being taken the way it was and apologize if anyone was offended.
    I plan on racing a/fuel next year whatever the rules end up being... so ill just leave the rest of this for you all to sort out....
     
    #59
  20. T.Smith

    T.Smith Top Dragster

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    Amen to that.
     
    #60

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