Is it time for timers on fuel shut off or ignition?

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

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    It would have to be REAL accurate. There's too many variables due to chassis arch and wing stand load flex. Even if you threw out those two variables you are probably only talking one and a half inches of wing movement (closer to the track surface) while the front end has risen 10 or 12 inches. Which would be too late.
     
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  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    slope control

    i think tom howell may have found the right product for the job....i finally got a chance to click the link above. this product seems to be simple and if it can handle the speed and vibration, it may be the ticket.

    here's text copied from the site:
    Features

    Single and Dual Axis
    Single Supply Input
    Reverse Polarity Protection
    Output Short Circuit Protected
    High Current-Sink Capability
    Inductive Load Protection
    -40°C to +75°C Operating Temperature Range
    Rugged Hermetic Packaging
    Shockproof to 500g
    Weatherproof
    Lamp / Solenoid Driver
    Normally Open or Closed Outputs
    Mercury Free Switch

    Back To Top

    Overview

    The SlopeAlert is a reliable, low cost solution of determining in-range and out of range tilt conditions. It is designed for off-road, in-motion vehicles and equipment that operate in high vibration/shock, rough terrain environments. Two of the most common applications for this warning device are: 1) to help prevent vehicle or equipment rollover on steep slopes; and 2) to aid track vehicles that need protection for over rotation while in motion, especially in rough terrain. Connected to a lamp, horn, or solenoid relay, this compact Single or Dual Axis unit can indicate both safe and unsafe conditions as well as provide a control signal to help prevent equipment over rotation.

    Even though the SlopeAlert System was designed for monitoring vehicle inclination in off-road, rough terrain environments, it is well suited for any application where inclination needs to be limited. Other industrial applications include irrigation controls, plough and grader hydraulic leveling controls, turf care, construction equipment, lift vehicles, and earth moving equipment. OEM's welcome!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    This system wired to a solenoid relay that would fire an inline fuel shutoff at or around 25-30 degrees would not only prevent most blowovers but in the event it did blowover, kill the engine.

    I'll put a call in tomorrow to see the effects of speed on this unit. The Wheelie control might be an alternative, but how easily could traction control be integrated into that unit?
     
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  3. bryanbrown

    bryanbrown Member

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    That sounds pretty good depending on how fast it can all happen. I think you'll be looking closer to 5-7 degrees of lift, though. That should put the front end 2-3 feet off the ground. Down track, at speed, how high could the front end safely come up without blowing over? maybe 2-3 ft is a little low. Can this unit be that precise to a specific, relatively small degree?

    bryan
     
    #43
  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    revisited

    It's coming up on two years since Shelly's accident. I think it's high time we continue to look into this before it happens again. I think the inclinometer would help prevent this from happening.
     
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  5. Hokes Racing

    Hokes Racing Moderator

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    What about a switch that the crewchief can push to shut the car off if it gets out of control think they use something like that in Monster trucks


    Lanny
     
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  6. bruce mullins

    bruce mullins Top Dragster

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    i don't think you can kill one of these cars with a switch once they are up to high speed and full power because of the ignition system. if you run a timing control on the msd setup you have to have 12 volts going to the control box. there were times i forgot to turn on the power switch and the car would not start. thats fine in the pits . a flick of a toggle switch( i used the same one for the 12 volts that powers the gauges) an the car fires right up. BUT i have made runs where the tires shake pretty good , drive through the shake and finish the run with no problem . fine. but get back to the pits and try to start the car after service and the car won't start. the switch IS ON. either the wire was off from the shake or the battery was junk from the shake. my point is somewhere after the shake, the 12 volts was lost but the car never shut off at speed. i don't know of anyone that has even tried with the mag kill during a high rpm strong wide open run. as much power that a 44amp system makes it wouldn't suprise me to see it continue running at full throttle. mabey i am wrong.
     
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  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    fuel

    while it is debateable whether or not a motor will run w/o ignition, a valve that would shut off the fuel inline with the pump would kill it pretty quick.
     
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  8. Kenneth S

    Kenneth S Member

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    Monster trucks have been using remote controll shutoffs for years, put one on a dragster or f/c have it operated by a dedicated crewman in a safe location supervised by a race official.
     
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  9. Eric David Bru

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    No reason why the remote couldn't be used to shutoff fuel or ignition or both.

    EDB
     
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  10. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    crew shut off

    I think if you read the whole thread, the crew member shut off may have some pitfalls.

    In a conversation with Frank Hawley on why he doesn't have such a device on his school cars, he brought up a good point. You may set a dangerous precedent if a driver feels someone else will shut it off if he/she gets out of control.

    Also, we're trying to prevent blowovers as well as prevent the catastrophic events that may occur if the car stays under power when it comes down. I don't think a crewmember can react fast enough to prevent a blowover. Your watching a run, and by the time you say oh no, then you have a hint of hesitation because you dont want to end a good run, then you hit the button, it's going over.

    I think the only viable option here is to cut off the fuel with some sort of inline shut off valve. An alcohol engine is more prone to shut off by ignition, but an a/fueler will not.
     
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  11. Eric David Bru

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    Actually Will, I have been on board on this thread since day 1.

    I think that the fuel and igntion kill switch could be a viable 'last-ditch-effort' that could save lives.

    I agree that it should not be relied upon to give a driver free reign, but if the driver was incapacitated this could be the saving grace.

    What would it hurt to add it?

    EDB

    PS I don't disagree with the 'automatic' shutoff caused by the inclinometer.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2007

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