fuel split on blower/ports

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by mightymouse, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    What kind of split do you guys run? Iam 50/50 right now, just didnt know what the trend was on a roots blower, Thanks guys
     
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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  2. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    As much as you can through the blower without making the port jet size too small as to catch dirt. It is hard to get much above a 65%/35% split most likly get a 62/38.
     
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  3. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    What would you say too small would be? have 55s in the hat and 50-58s in the ports.
     
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  4. alcohol altered

    alcohol altered New Member

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    I run lower 30's in some of my ports. Make sure you figure area and not the number on the jet. I knew a not so bright guy that did it and he blew his engine up:eek:
     
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  5. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    I will not go into the 30's. Either way you need a fuel strainer screen on the inlet to the BV or an inline fuel filter. Remeber if you reduce the area the pressure goes up so the flow needs to be adjusted a little. Jetsize software does an excellent job of letting reduce or increase all the jet area by a percentage and keeps the total GPM to the motor constant.
     
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  6. jim phillips

    jim phillips ta/fc

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    how do you figure gpm that a motor needs and how does it differ betweeen motors just curious im not sure so i always pay someone that knows the answer

    thanks jim
     
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  7. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    I know what you mean, i have jetsize. and paid to have my system flowed, but iam in the 130-140 main size and still WAY too fat still, so i was going to down size my ports to get the main back smaller..
     
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  8. altered boy

    altered boy Outlaw Altered

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    mouse you might be in need of a system loop... any idea what your system pressure is?
     
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  9. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    with a 120 pill its 138@ 8000 and after shift goes to 101@7100. off the car, right before BV, now the jetsize says 88lbs, witch i dont understand that.??:confused:
     
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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  10. altered boy

    altered boy Outlaw Altered

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    ah oops!! i just looked back... i was thinking YOU said you were running 30's in the ports (which would make me nervous)... but i just reread it and i see you are in the 50's

    but you did say it's still 'WAY too fat' even with a 140 main... and i prefer to set systems so the main is near 100 when running in your most common altitudes. when you start getting a really big main it usually means the car is 'over pumped' and you are trying to use the main as a pump-sizer
     
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  11. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    have ran a 130 pill and still just getting maybe 1/16 of the face of the plug green, rest of the plug looks new, and added timing in the car trying to burn the fuel and ended up beating the bearings out of it, so backed timing up and going to take a load of fuel out of it, just not sure whats the best way of doing that...
     
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  12. altered boy

    altered boy Outlaw Altered

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    well... it's always my opinion that these things tend to be 'tolerant' in this order: 1-boost 2-leaning fuel 3-timing/detonation

    obviously that is just a rule of thumb and depends greatly on what the particular tuner considers to be a 'little adjustment'. i'm a poor kid so my steps are usually small and calculated. i like to keep good notes and check/double-check it thru jetsize before i put it down the track. i also like to make changes and then shoot the car maybe 300ft... check things. if all is well then shoot it a little further

    any hi-speeds on the thing now?

    i would figure your current gpm in jetsize with the main as is sits now... then using jetsize i would set the main to 100 and factor in a loop to get back to the original gpm. make baby steps/short hits trimming the loops/sizer and evening up cylinders as needed (of course keeping the port area the same)

    hopefully canter will jump back in here... he's wealth of knowledge
     
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  13. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Mightymouse. You need to correct Jetsize to match your car. Davenport talks about this in his instructions but it is not very clear. Here are my own guidelines. This includes adjusting GPM if you have a flow sensor so if you don't then just do the part on adjusting fuel pressure. Make sure you save a copy of that Jetsize setup you have now so you can return to it if you make a mistake.

    As I have said before the Jetsize program assumes that you are reading the fuel pressure prior to the BV because Jetsize automatically drops the fuel pressure in its calculations to account for the drop through the BV. Davenport took and average drop across the BV from numerous tests on his flow bench. He just forgot to tell us.

    For those who don't know. In Jetsize you can reference everything to 8000 rpm or 9000 rpm depending on how you operate your motor. With a TA/FC there is really no point in using 8000 rpm as a reference because you may never see 8000 again after launch. Same goes for if you shift at 8500 rpm there is no way you can use 9000 rpm as a reference. Make sure if you talk to a tuner or racer that you are both talking the same reference and at the same Density Altitude. I always talk fuel flow at zero feet in Density Altitude. So I change my weather in Jetsize to read zero feet and see what the GPM is. (29.92, 0%, 59*)

    Double check after doing this that you have the same Tuning Modifier and same Main Jet size. If so the tuneup didn't change.

    Just for info...adjusting just the GPM in Jetsize does NOT change the tuneup because it is just a reference for you.

    Calibrating Jetsize To Actual Car Data


    1. You need to write down all the data from the run as recorded on the data logger. You will need at 9000 rpm (or 8000 RPM) the boost, pump pressure and GPM. The best and most stable place to read this is during the third gear pull when things are not changing fast. For initial rough calibration on an uncompleted run you can use any 9000 rpm point (or 8000 rpm). The second gear 9000 rpm (or 8000 rpm) point is better than a first gear point. Normally first gear pump pressures and GPM are influenced by lean outs or enrichment circuits and should not be used.


    2. Now open Jetsize program and have it set up for the run just completed. Write down what the Tuning Modifier, the main jet size, the pump pressure and the GPM are.

    3. Go to the second page of Jetsize and set the boost to be what was recorded at 9000 RPM (or 8000 rpm)

    Adjusting Fuel Pressure

    4. If the pump pressure on the first page was off to what was actually seen then change the pump pressure on the second page. Go back to the first page and re-insert the Tuning Modifier that you had previously recorded (changing pump pressure changes the Tuning Modifier). You will probably have to go and insert the pump pressure on the second page again because it normally takes more than once to rock it in. It may take three or four times. Don’t forget to correct the Tuning Modifier everytime.

    Now if you have a Fuel Flow Sensor

    5. Once the pump pressure is right on go to “Adjust” in the lower left quadrant of the first page and adjust the GPM to read what was on the data logger at 9000 RPM (or 8000 rpm) during the run. (this does not change your tuneup)

    6. Now check everything…… the boost pressure, the Tuning Modifier, the pump pressure and the GPM. It should all match what you had on the previous run.

    It is now calibrated to your car.
    :D
     
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  14. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Damn, Mike Canter, YOU ARE THE MAN! You are an incredible help to everyone on this website. Myself included! Thank you for taking the time to answer all of our questions, that last post had to take at least 30 min of your time to type out! Jody Stroud
     
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  15. mightymouse

    mightymouse Member

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    Thanks a ton mike canter!!! You are a great help to alot of racers on here. I got my system back and baseline was for 2400CA was 12.8gal with a 95pill no hispeed. 41lbs boost 400cid. 32*timing, got told bump timing up to burn the fuel., Well made it to 37* then had to pry the bearings off the crank. now timing back at 32 and at a 130. my next step was going to be hispeed and down size the ports to keep pump psi up. my notes say my last good pass was -1.3gal from baseline tune up i got. egts are 1100 but plugs show little to no heat, why i feel iam still way fat. again big thanks mike, getting my jet size out and going to fix it now.
     
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  16. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster
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    Get Jetsize out and calibrate it for your motor. Add a 40 jet Pump Sizer Loop through a 30 lb poppet crack pressure and see what happens to your main jet size. You may need a 60 or 80 Pump Sizer jet. The GPM to the motor at this point will not change but the main jet size will. So every run adjust the Tuning Modifier by adding +18 to it. So if you are at -118 then make it -100. If you are at +30 it will make it +48. This should change your main jet size by 5 sizes which is about a .25 GPM change to flow at a time. You may have to re-adjust your Pump Sizer Loop jet to keep the main jet size where you want it. Keep doing this and watch your EGTs at the finish line. You will see them getting hotter. Keep reading those plugs. They should start going from the green bubble burn off to medium to dark gray maybe on half the flat base ring then it will start going dark gray on the whole base ring. Like you said I believe I would keep the timing where you are at now.
     
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  17. altered boy

    altered boy Outlaw Altered

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    see... i told you that canter dude was kinda handy! :D
     
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