Darien Testing

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Doug Watt, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. johnny ahten

    johnny ahten Member

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    Kevin, if they didn't have 100% how did you guys bump it up to 98%?
     
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  2. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Johnny I came to vegas with 5 jugs of uncut Nitro I bought in Vegas back in November....I bought a drum of 96 from them this weekend....But they will sell 100% by the gallon only to cut/add the percentage as I stated in the above post!

    KB
     
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  3. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Also, the drum of 96% I bought was tested by the VP dood at 97.2%...That said is 100% real? NOPE I think 100% was more like around 103-105 so when they took it to 96% well it was not a 4% drop it was more like a 9-10% shot to the pills....RIP AFD!

    KB
     
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  4. johnny ahten

    johnny ahten Member

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    Kevin, 97.2%, that sucks. I can see a/fuelers getting DQ'd unintentionally with 96%+ When the 96% ain't 96%
     
    #44
  5. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Johnny, we have not stirred the drum yet so not real sure of the total nitro content but we will see....
    We also tested the nitro before our runs in Vegas to make sure we were right on....we were at 95.8%
    Kevin
     
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  6. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Kevin,
    How do you read percentage that close? Do you have a digital hydrometer. If so what did that cost? Also all the nitro from VP that I bought in the past was 98% at 60 degrees. At 40 degrees might check as high as 102%. At 90 degrees it might check only 95%. What do you do when you start out with only 96 at 60 degrees and the ambient goes up to 85-90. Stay home!!!!
    If the temp at Vegas was 70 degrees the 96% was something less than that. Did you bring it up with some of your old fuel or is NHRA using a temp. corrected formula? I emailed them for their checking procedure several times but as always had no reply.
     
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  7. T.Howell

    T.Howell Member

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    ""NOPE I think 100% was more like around 103-105""

    That is physically impossible. 100% nitro is 100% no mater what the temperature. The density will change but the composition stays the same.
    You have to use temperature correction.
     
    #47
  8. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    i'm glad someone caught that tom. density changes with temp, but percentage of any compound cannot exceed 100%.
     
    #48
  9. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    How often will they check these 96% drums??? I remember when NHRA first went to the 90% rule, VP showed up with 90% barrels at Phx for testing. Only problem was most of the barrels tested at 87-88%!
     
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  10. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Our refinery does not make nitromethane, but I have friends that do. Just as with most compounds, there is nor such thing as 100% nitromethane. It is unfeasable to get all the impurities out. I am told that most drums of "pure" nitro, leave the dock at around 98.5% at 60 degrees. Tom is correct. 60 degrees F is the standard for checking all hydrocarbons and most liquid compounds.
    96% was probably only a 2% to 3% reduction. If NHRA gives in so easily, 98% would be a whole 1/2%. Some "pure" drums have reportably been that low (98%) in the past.
    Give it a honest chance.

    Take care all,
    Marty
     
    #50
  11. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

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    Marty,

    Why do you care what NHRA does to the percentage? You have stated that you are going TAFC racing aren't you? 96% is too much of a change. It took Darien 30 runs with 96% just to run 5.50 and He has the greatest minds in drag racing in the next trailer. 98% is probably a fair number to make it even (if you could ever make A/FD & TAD EVEN!)

    Doug
     
    #51
  12. mike w.

    mike w. TAFC

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    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but NHRA did not remove 3% of the power from the car, they just replaced 3 percent of the nitro with alcohol.
    Alcohol actually has a lot more btu's per pound that nitro has.
    You really have to calculate the relative lbs. now used to get the true loss.
     
    #52
  13. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Doug,
    I still own a BA/D, and may well be racing it this year, since most of the world believes that they will still be at a disadvantage, making them very hard to sell.
    Even if I am sucessful in switching to a funny car for this year, I will still care about the welfare of the class and my friends in BA/D's and AF/D's.

    Take care,
    Marty
     
    #53
  14. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

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    Marty,

    I don't think "most of the world thinks they are still at a disatvantage" maybe the ones that were not at Vegas. It was ugly. See, you can put your last years combo together and be one of the top cars in the nation. Every year we have the change ours... $$$ TIME & MONEY. I wish you the best which ever way you decide to go.

    Doug
     
    #54
  15. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Yup..... what Doug said! real ugly......

    KB
     
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  16. Dean Adams

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    Mike W,

    The specific energy of methanol (BTU/lb) is almost double that of nitromethane, so theoretically the AFDs have more available power. Obviously there is a lot more to it than that. When you are trying to force 25 to 30 gpm into an unblown engine, where your air/fuel ratio is much less that 1.0, you are dealing with a completely different kind of animal. A few percent of methanol has clearly had a big effect on the way the combustion process occurs. NHRA had no business making this kind of a rule change without some testing up front.
     
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  17. Dean Adams

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    Marty mentioned that nitromethane comes out of the barrel with about 1.5% impurities. The suggestion being that with the 98% rule in effect, AFDs will then only have to cut their straight can with 0.5% methanol. First off I think straight nitro is considerably purer than that, but opinions aside, all that really matters is what NHRA’s hydrometers read – temperature corrected of course. The meters are calibrated against straight can, so it doesn’t matter what that actual purity is. If they are looking for 98%, the fuel has to have the density of straight can with 2% methanol mixed in. All the hydrometer reads is density. It doesn’t know nitro from seawater if there's enough salt in it.
     
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  18. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but if you don't understand why nitro produces more power than alcohol you should do some reading. Guess what, gasoline has a better btu/lb. rating than alcohol. So why don't racers running alcohol switch to gas so they can make more power!!!!
     
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  19. Dean Adams

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    No need to read about it, I've run all three so I know.
     
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  20. robert

    robert New Member

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    from what ive seen most nitro cars cant make it down the track on so called 100 % only a hand full are running the numbers
     
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