Clutch - Scew Blown FC

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by TOL, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    I'm curious about a couple of things relating to the clutches used in current screw blown FC's, as the RPM's and loads with those are probably similar to what we should expect in our screw blown Pro Mod.

    What brand and size seems to be most common? All aluminum construction, or a mix of alumininum & Ti construction, or all Ti construction? Any special considerations regarding rear main protection (ie: clutch balance, or clutch buttons against a hardened motor plate insert, or external lube, etc).

    Will soon be buying a complete new clutch pacakage for our deal, and would appreciate any feedback or experiences either regarding the construction or potential vendors.

    Thanks.
     
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  2. wheelie

    wheelie Member

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    You will probably get 10 different answers on this one! :D
     
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  3. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    That would be okay. The more information the better........
     
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  4. Eric David Bru

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    Walt, what are you going to be using for a clutch management system?

    EDB
     
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  5. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

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    Talk to Justin at Ace Clutches....he's kinda goofy lookin', but overall a really smart guy.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #323
     
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  6. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    My own servo design in conjunction with my left foot.......
     
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  7. JustinatAce

    JustinatAce Member

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    Couple questions..

    Are you going to have enough time to pull the can and clutch every run? How many runs a year are you looking at putting on the car?
     
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  8. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Fairly low runs per year, as in maybe 40-50. 2700 pound screw blown P/M with 3-speed Lenco, 4.56 gear, either 34.5 or 36 tire. Will see well past 10K RPM's. Should have enough time to cycle through fresh clutch parts if needed, and service back at the shop. Hoping to to get a few runs in a row with just resetting the clearances. Would like to run the clutch as a forced lockup unit. Need hemi bolt pattern and Chev ring gear. Have an 8 5/8" trick can. Debating whether to run buttons on the back of the clutch against a hard insert in the motor plate, or whether all Ti might be stiff enough and not bother with the buttons. Thanks.
     
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  9. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    you may want to look at the Leanders clutch, I have just got one of these and having had AFT and Crower befour where you get a cardboard box with last weeks new york times as packaging I can honnestly say that rarely have i spent so much money and be TOTALY happy with all aspects of the product, It can be supplied with lock up leavers that unlike aft and crower use's ALL the levers not just extra weight on two which unevenly loads the hat,
    this clutch is in use in the US Tutterow, DeAprille, Personett all use it,
    Matts Erikson, the only 5 sec pro mod in europe uses it, Fast freddys 6.11 C10 truck has it,
    It is produced with or without a ring gear, The FIA TAFC champion Ulf Leanders not surprisingly uses it, the whole deal is pure quality,
    Its available in two or 3 disc set ups,
    it has a uniuqe floater design that all but eliminates out of balance problems and associated rear main probs,
    this is the ONLY clutch manufactured outside the USA to gain an SFI acredditation,
    It comes with a exell based dyno sheet that can be used to calculate weights and presure applied and another program for the lock up fingers,
    Take a look or talk to someone that uses one befour you spend your money
     
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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  10. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Sounds interesting. Will check it out. Does Leanders have a website? Can the floaters be sourced from within North America?.....
     
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  11. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    the floaters are a unique design only produced in sweden, compared to AFT bronz e coated floaters they are very cheap if you buy a clutch buy enough floaters for a year,
    discs come fron the US so no problem there, small parts are easily shippable, the website dosnt hold much info,
    at the weekend i will take some photos and post them as the clutch is still in its case...you will be blown away
     
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  12. eli

    eli Banned

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    here is the clutch, it looks bitch-en, very impressive.


    http://www.leandersbros.se/Images/press/new2007_03.jpg
     
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  13. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Some photos would be great. Found the Leanders website. You're right, not a lot of info there. Looks like a 7-stand unit. If the floaters are just steel, we could probably make them here ourselves. We make TF floaters already. I'd like to review their lockup approach in closer detail. May have to call them later this week. Thanks for the info.......
     
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  14. JustinatAce

    JustinatAce Member

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    I don't want to bad mouth anything here, but be careful of hype on new products. I do like the size of the Leanders to minimize between round maintenance and the design has many positive points and I will leave it at that. I don't have a clutch to promote from my own line, so I'm just an observer for Pro Mod's.

    The bottom line is that there is no magic when it comes to clutches and if you want consistency, you need to service it every round, no matter what anybody tells you you can get away with. You are hanging 60-75 lbs off the back of your crank and spinning it 10,000+, perfect balance or not, there are other factors that cause main bearing issues. What I can tell you is that the points leaders in ADRL right now of the 5 guys in the top of ADRL's Pro Extreme, the top 4 are using East/West Lockup or a Crower.
     
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  15. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    i have lock up fingers with mine as well as standard pictured i wont post those pics cause its not my place to show everyone incase they are coppied trust me if you know how a clutch is made to function as a lock up these fingers will blow you away
     
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  16. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Thanks Justin. I hear you loud & clear on new versus proven. A risk to be asessed for sure.

    You mentioned the top 5 ADRL guys using East/West or Crower. Are both being used as lockup style? Are both all Ti or a mix of Ti & Aluminum? Do you think all Ti is worth the money?

    Would be curious as to what other factors contribute to the rear main issues, and whether you have an opinion one way or the other about buttons on the backside of the clutch like what is used in fuel applications where they have 90+ pounds hanging off the back of the crank.
     
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  17. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Yes I certainly would like to review those lockup levers. You can send pics or info to my e-mail if you care to. Does their lockup system use a double ended cross shaft with active stop, or a cannon type deal like TF? whome@look.ca
     
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  18. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    its not new or hype its been around for a while now and what iv said it the truth
    the fact is that the lock up system on crower/aft is agricultural compared to this
    fact its stiffer that any other ally unit,typicaly can use a 035 air gap without rolling the beams
    fact of cource there are more american built units in use hardly surprising as your in America, dosnt nessacarily make them the best, just home grown
     
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  19. JustinatAce

    JustinatAce Member

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    Tire shake, bearing clearance, crank and entire rotating assembly balance and squareness of driveline behind the clutch can all have a profound effect on the life of rear mains. Tire shake, bearing clearance and rotating assembly balance can all cause oscillations in the clutch, essentially bounching the hat and donut at a different rate than the flywheel. If the transmission isn't inline perfectly with the crank, that can also cause oscillation in the input shaft, which can really hammer the clutch and transfer back through the crank.

    I would be willing to bet that most are using all Ti because it grows and shrinks considerably less than aluminum and fatigues less over time due to the heat cycles. As far as the pucks of material on the back of the flywheel, you could do it, but generally you're further ahead to have your motorplate as close to the back of the flywheel as you can, or make an aluminum insert for your motorplate. Fuel cars need them because their stack height is probably near a full inch or better taller than a standard pedal clutch 3-disc. That's a lot of mass far from the support of the crank flange. To me it just seems like 1 more thing to throw at the clutch assembly to try and keep balanced for a 10,000+ RPM alky motor.
     
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  20. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    that pic is one of the first clutches it has undergone a series of improvements since then, obviously it wasnt perfect right off the production line its been around long enough to have undergone its teething.development process
    i will post a pic of the latest version at the weekend,

    incidently the top 5 FIA pro mods this year 3 use AFT one uses a lenco drive and one a leanders,

    did anyone see their on head valve spring checker/remove/installer for fat heads,
    absolutly awesome
    Manton is the dealer for them do you think he would associate with a supplier that was anything less than first class,
    maybe Noel will be along to enforce what iv said about the capabilitys of the Leanders Bros
     
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