Car counts

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by 310TAD, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. michael hall

    michael hall New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    my two pennies

    The common fan in the stands doesn't know or care if the two cars going down the track go 5.50, or 5.90! What they want to see is a nice smokey burnout, a side by side race and to be able to get an autograph or talk to the driver after the run. Yes, as a driver, I want to go faster and faster every time down the track, but budget and common sense limits me to backing the tune up down to keep the Gods of Aluminum at bay. So, get with Div Directors, track owners and instead of posting hours of comments for us to bicker back and forth about, DO something about it. I am not trying to upset anyone on here, because everyone has great points. Just get off the computer and knock on your division directors door!!
     
    #41
  2. MaineAlkyFan

    MaineAlkyFan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    22
    Above Average Fan

    Here is what this fan loves about the alcohol classes.

    The players are real people, and really appreciate the racing and what it takes to do it. The courtesy revs and high RPM bump in. The launch, nothing matches a blown alcohol launch. That absolutely delicious sound of an over driven blower winding down during back-up and preparation for prestage. Watching a great driver short shift or just leg it through shake. Watching a well balanced car kick-ass and dance the balance game or gamble with the game for a win (Reichert's track long 20" wheelstand of a few years back come to mind). Trying to decide if you want to root for the BAD or the AF on the line. The wonder at how a normally aspirated V8 can regularly get 5.30s at 265. Visiting a pit and being invited for dinner. Uncle Frankie's handshake.

    I'm not a common fan, so many of the points made about them are true, but I can tell a .90 from a .40... often by halftrack on TV. Of course if it meant loosing the class, I'd be happy to settle for .90's or 1,000 foot or whatever.

    I guess I'd just like to thank you all for doing what you love, and providing a great deal of pleasure to this fan. Say hi if you see me at the Div. 1 race in Epping this weekend, I'll be the guy with the Top Topping / Brooks Brown T-shirt on.:D

    Chris Saulnier
    Gray, Maine
     
    #42
  3. Barry Ferriolo

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    2
    Michael - you could never upset me. not with your smile. besides, i'm just hav'en a little fun like the rest of the guys. this isn't exactly a life or death subject
     
    #43
  4. Ro Yale

    Ro Yale Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    1
    Run or Not Run

    I'm one of the drivers sitting on the side lines. The reason is rediculous expenses. The $6000 brake rule. I was saving for heads ect.. Entry fees for car and crew....damn! Shut off switches...blah, blah blah. Great ideas but so would sitting in the stands running by remote control. I want to RACE. I want to learn...I got no problem with someone having multiple motors. No problem with divisions. But get practical. I'm expanding my business so I can make more money to race. I'll find a way to do it but it'll take time.
     
    #44
  5. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Barry, As a division one racer, how many times have you seen Frank Manzo change motors during a weekend?
     
    #45
  6. Barry Ferriolo

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    2
    put a ten foot plank, one foot off the ground. now walk across it. take that same plank and raise it 100 feet off the ground. now walk across it. it's the same plank but you may hesitate because of the consequences of not making it all the way. it's called fear. fear can change your way of thinking. look, i know it's a crazy idea... but no more than driving from maine to florida back to maine just to attend a division race. but that new map might work. what's your idea.
     
    #46
  7. Woodchip

    Woodchip Top Alcohol Dragster

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fear don't win races, I don't see anyone treading lightly when they're down to their last block and the other is windowed on the shop floor. Just an example.
     
    #47
  8. Barry Ferriolo

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    2
    you're missing my point. it doesn't matter how much shit you can blow up in a weekend, if you know that you only get one. and no one can argue the fact that the harder you push a motor, the better chance you have of something going wrong. that's a fact in any form of motorsports. that's why the guys with money run closer to the edge than the budget teams. if you want to get into this class and be a player, you not only need the basics but a ton of spares. very prohibiting. and by the way - i have seen manzo change motors at the track. not that it's fair to compare the king to anyone.
     
    #48
  9. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    What I think needs to be done is the racers who aren't currently racing should be contacted and asked; "what will it take to get you back out there?" or per this thread discussion "would a one motor rule get you back out there?" All of the ideas posted are good in their own right, but if were trying to get the cars back out from the sidelines...those are the suggestions/inputs we need (I know a few of you have commmented). I have been part of a racing organization before that took partisan suggestions and not the ones from the current members/competitors. When this happened the loyalists quit coming and the geniuses with suggestions never showed up either.....class goes kaput. People can say whatever they want about a motor rule not affecting how they run their car, that'll last until NHRA bans them for oiling the track one too many times (per the new 2011 rules). I'm not sure if that's the answer or not, but it's a legitimate idea. My dad and I work very hard to attend as many races as we do. It's hard to fund the travel and even harder to compete against an uber funded team. That being said, they only get one motor when they're going down the track against you....so there's that side to the arguement as well. Hopefully we can present something at the US Nationals, I can assure everyone we don't want NHRA making our choices for us.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #34
     
    #49
  10. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,333
    Likes Received:
    50
    One of the biggest things affecting car counts is something NHRA can't change, the economy.
     
    #50
  11. PAUL FISHBURN

    PAUL FISHBURN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like the man said, it's the economy stupid

    I have just this week completed all the updates to our car.
    We will be back out in the spring. We all love to race, but we have to eat and pay the bills first. I think nhra must certainly know this.
    Paul fishburn
     
    #51
  12. michael hall

    michael hall New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    ..the point

    {Pretty much everyone on here has a very valid point. However, Barry has made a point that NOBODY seems to be able to understand. No matter how much money you have, or how GREAT a tuner you claim to be, one engine is one engine. If you are capable of running 5.50, and make it live you are a great tuner. But, if you make one run, and run 5.50 with the rods out of the block, what good was that one run if you cannot back it up and go to the finals and win??

    Yes, the economy has killed many of the die hard budget racers, including my family's alky f/c. It was that way 20 years ago, when my dad saw the light and got out of it. Today, it's all the same story. I look up to and respect many of you on here, and my point is that of a "kid" who has lived with this disease for 40 years called drag racing. It is time we all get together, no matter which level or division you live in, and make it somewhat easier to enjoy this sport.
     
    #52
  13. eli

    eli Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,657
    Likes Received:
    1

    Mike Back in the day, ( your fathers and mine) when every one was running a steel engine, we had to be carefull how we tuned if you didn't have a big budget, Guys like Amato, Manzo, And others, who had there own money or sponsors, did what they do today, ya just had to know what you were doing or you didn't race next week, because we raced every week end and some times on Wednesday night at E-Town, Then the Aluminum engine came into being, That was saposta let you get after the tuneup, many like myself had to save for an aluminum block, (alum.heads weren't made yet,The idea was if you melted a piston you could change the sleeve and piston and go to the next round, For some reason the rods back then weren't breaking like they do today,(RPM's I guess) or maybe they are made to last so long then break or you got rid of them before they break, ( more money for the alum gods),;)but the same thing happened back then as dose today, the guys with the jingle have the advantage, point is, NO MUN NO FUN, P/S I made the mistake of buying a Donovan 417, most all the other guys bought a KB block,so if they didn't have spare part some one in the pits did, not so with the 417, It's all about the money today, just saying
    Gene Terenzio Sr.
     
    #53
  14. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    7
    Alky Classes need infusion

    What would it take to get some of the companies that make a good portion of their money off sales to the alky teams to put alittle of it back into the classes (before they lose more, or all of their alky customers)???
    Alky teams spend alot of money with certain companies, and if they want the class to stay alive and well, you would think they would be interested in sponsoring a national or divisional (regional?) program. I am lucky enough to be in Division 3 where Spitzer Race Cars sponsor a low qualifier bonus ($500) at each D-3 meet for TA/D and TA/FC, whether you spend money with them or not (you would think more would appreciate this). Also at the end of the year, they give another $1000 and a very nice trophy to the season long qualifying points champ. Just giving alittle back to the racer, and supporting the classes. Spitzer does another program for the Top Dragster classes.
    Why isn't this more common?
    Lucas Oil already does alot. Alot of other companies sell to Alky racers nation wide. If we could get them to subsidies the Alky purses, more racers could afford to stay afloat.

    Any one have any ideas on this line?

    Marty
     
    #54
  15. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,333
    Likes Received:
    50
    few things

    With both the cars I tune, we have one spare motor. We don't want to use it. It's there primarily for parts failure. Take for instance, we saw a needle bearing in the pan after q3 in Topeka. We changed motors for r1. We then took the spare apart that night, cleaned up the lifter bore, put another cam in it and we had a spare ready again for Sunday.

    Maybe the problem is if you think the way to go real fast is leaning on it real hard or running a bunch of timing.

    There have been plenty of races with Foster and other teams I have worked with where due to hurting a motor we didn't have a spare together in time for the first race and we raced with only one motor. I didn't back down one thing. The only thing is I was more nervous something was going to bite us in the ass.

    What are you going to do when someone starts dragging another trailer with all the stuff to fix a block at the track? How is that going fix things? You're never going to trump money with rules.

    The root of the problem is money, which ties back to the economy we are in. The carbon brake rule, while necessary, could not have hit at a worse time. I would bet for most who are on the sideline right now, there is nothing NHRA could do besides give them a bag full of cash.

    Marty, I see where you're getting at, every little bit helps, but with the economy down, their business is down too. That's why it's so hard to get even product deals these days.

    As I have said before, if there's a long term solution for us, it's going to be in creating a better over all package that offers more value to track owners and racers. If I knew I was racing every race in front of a packed or even semi packed house like the Norwalk Divisional, I'm pretty sure I could get a few bucks from the local Ford dealer, etc. If we start going to tracks that promote us and start drawing crowds on a regular basis, now we have some bargaining leverage for the pay raise we deserve. The system has been so broke for so long, there are no short term answers that really work.
     
    #55
  16. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,333
    Likes Received:
    50
    reduced nationals

    One idea I hear that has been circulating within NHRA is reducing the number of national events the alcohol cars compete at to 12 for each class. 8 races with both TAD and TAFC, then 4 races with TAD only, 4 with TAFC only.
     
    #56
  17. Chuck Anderika

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    What came first the chicken or the egg. Everyone cut down on the number of events because of travel. Take away the closest races and most racers, especially those alredy on a tight budget who are still racing, will just go to less races not travel farther. that is the same thing as going to regionals. Why should Div 1 and 3 racers have to give up races close to home to go to races in Fla. and Texas. if they wanted to go to those races now they could but most don't. you won't get more participation but less. If you talk about car counts at national events look at Stock and SS at Denver this week. 36 in stock and 22 in SS for an 80 car field. Why? no one will travel the distances needed. Not that there aren't stock and SS cars out there. It isn't one motor or five. its the cost of travel and time from work. If division 2 and 4 can't fill their car count maybe they should reexamine their programs.
     
    #57
  18. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    16
    I am involved with a budget pro mod team running the West Coast Outlaw Pro Mod series. We just raced the Division 7 Sonoma event last weekend. TAD and TA/FC were not running this event.

    For the folks at Infineon, they got 15 Pro Mod cars qualifying for an 8 car show with 4 of them making 5 second passes, for free. Georgia did not charge an entry fee to the PM racers and the purse was paid by an entry fee ($250) paid by the participants to the WCPM association leaders. The winner was paid $3,000 and we got $1,500 for runner up. They (Infineon) were happy to see us.

    I'm not sure how the $$ works out, but aren't the tracks paying the NHRA for the alky classes at the division races and then the tracks are expected to pay the alky purse on top of or included in that? Are we worth it? What if the alky model was worked out similarly to the WCPM association? Seems like few of the west coast tracks (with the exception of Woodburn and a couple others) aren't the least bit interested in promoting the alky classes, don't care (or want us) if we show up and are relying on the back gate to pay the way. The racers themselves could and should get involved in finding local or series sponsors to up the purses, which isn't happening at all here in Division 7. As a side note, the WCPM association appears to have a following of it's on in terms of fans.

    If we are interested in the survival of our classes it might mean getting a little creative during this down economy. Will is right. The manufacturers/suppliers are just trying to survive right now so looking to them to send money your way is unlikely. And now that we, as alky racers, are competing with options the tracks have...like Pro Mod or Nostalgia Fuel Funny Cars...that cost the tracks nothing, we need to come up with a reason for them to still be interested in us besides the fact that NHRA puts us on them.

    Roger Burgess is the face of NHRA pro mod. Lucas is the face of NHRA sportsman racing. But I think we've all been a little to lazy when it comes to finding our own support. What ever happened to the low qualifier bonuses we used to get? Do we sit around and wait for the NHRA marketing department to find stuff like that for us? It will happen only in your dreams.

    Another point already made. Even though I left my rig in Woodburn instead of driving it back to So Cal, the travel bill for Keeter to run Seattle next week is phenominal. Two weeks later we get to do it again at the Seattle division race. Between the two events you could make a nice down payment on a house in Maui.

    RG
     
    #58
  19. Barry Ferriolo

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    2
    Randy - i want to put all past differences aside for one moment. i'm not lazy. after working at my day job, working on a race car and taking care of what needs to be done in my life, i don't have the time, money or energy to do promotion or marketing for me let alone for division one tracks. and all the car owners i know are in the same boat. maybe we (each division) could hire someone to do that for us. but i have no idea what that would cost.
     
    #59
  20. BLOWN INCOME

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    From a veteran of 50 years of alcohol racing my reason for not going to the races is simple !
    Don't have $12,000 to invest in safety equipment that i feel is not necessary !
    I have always be able to stop the car in 50 years,my chutes have always stayed on,and I never needed anyone to shut my car off remotely,although i've only run 242 mph.
    There are a ton of ta/fc' racers out there who would run races if they weren't required to have the rich man safety parts on,and have done it for years without a safety issue.
    The racer who has a 8 to 5 job and no sponsor money, just can't afford it.
    Some of the tuner and drivers who don't have to pay for these parts out of their pocket
    just don't understand the average joe-doe ta/fc racer who would love to race......

    Thanks
    Santo Sicilia
    TAD 335
    AA/FA
    TA/FC
    AND THE OLD PRO-COMP DAYS
     
    #60

Share This Page