Call from Gainsville TAD Run

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by tjenna, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. therealspeedster

    therealspeedster Jr. Dragster

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    well instead of lowering the fuel % on the a/fuelers why not let the blown cars run a hundred pounds lighter? would that help or are the blown cars just up against gear?
     
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  2. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Like Lanny said there may be technology out there, but the cars are not allowed touse any of it.
    I guess if money was absolutley no object then the car could run on the absolute ragged edge every lap out and not worry about the cost.

    Most are already called didiots for spending a couple hundred K or more in order to win 40,000 in a year, or if your are the champ maybe 100,000.
    Should they risk a rotating assembly on every lap just to run a couple hun quicker.

    If you think that 5.20's or better are there if you want to push the envelope, then change classes (if you are who I think you are), and a battle a car that turns 7000rpms and run 20's or teens.
    I bet you won't

    Parity should mean performace and cost equality.


    The performance part of parity is attainable if the team owners and the powers would agree to these rules.

    Under: 1000 corrected feet. 95% Under 2000 feet. 97%
    under 3000 feet full load
    Over 4000 feet the BAD get a lower OD to 2.00
    over 5000 feet their od is reduced to the same as the floppers 1.92

    (these percentages and OD's determined 30 - 45 minutes before the call to the lanes, yes it has to be managed but don't tell be it can't be done)

    Dean
     
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  3. scott hall

    scott hall Member

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    Dean, did I just read:

    "The performance part of parity is attainable if the team owners and the powers would agree to these rules.

    Under: 1000 corrected feet. 95% Under 2000 feet. 97%
    under 3000 feet full load
    Over 4000 feet the BAD get a lower OD to 2.00
    over 5000 feet their od is reduced to the same as the floppers 1.92

    (these percentages and OD's determined 30 - 45 minutes before the call to the lanes, yes it has to be managed but don't tell be it can't be done)"

    I agree if we all raced super comp, but Dean, have you ever worked on one of these cars?

    I've been to races where the turn around was 45 minutes! It takes 45 minutes to get the fuel mixed or the pullies swapped, especially with a crank support.

    ...but, at least you have some ideas, i'll give you that much.
     
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  4. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

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    (these percentages and OD's determined 30 - 45 minutes before the call to the lanes, yes it has to be managed but don't tell be it can't be done)

    Dean,

    45 min's before, I don't think so. It would be hard enough to change your combo from track to track let alone between rounds.

    The best change I can see is that if you want to run a blower, run TAFC (the car counts are down anyway) and if you want to run a dragster, run AFD (the new class name). That would stop all the complaining about PAIRTY! Done, over, no more complaining.

    Doug
     
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  5. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I have actually worked with three diferent blown teams.

    YA, I might of been a little optimistic on making changes to the rules 45 Minutes,
    I was basing it on what would be a single change to the elvation at a race
    But I realize there could be more than that at many races. I was just trying to make a point, that is all. Okay so you have each race with a set eleavtion so you know what your percentage or OD will be going into it.
    I am not sure what the changes the A/Fuelrs had to make to compensate for the lower percentage.

    I am guessing a little more fuel (but that one is possibly doubtful because they were having a hard enough time burning under a full load)

    Maybe a bit more compression

    Maybe a bit more or less mag

    The clutch settings they adjust after every run anyway
    Most of the above are easy changes, (compression is the most labour intensive)

    Someone who is an A/Fuel crew memberplease post and tell us the generic changes you had to make.

    For a BAD car, mag and fuel volume are easily changed, Gear ratio and tranny are labour intensive.

    I think it can be done.

    As far as making TAd an all A/Fuel class, That just opens the door to another huge lawsuit that I don't think NHRA wants, and I don't think should happen anyway. There is a lot of history for the BAD's and 5.30's are nothing to sneeze at

    (after further review I am guessing that Mike W. is not prt of the team I though, or is he)
    Dean
     
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  6. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Mike, I'm sure the Blown tuners would love to hear how you could make a Blown car run a low .20. A Teen's in the Twilightzone!
     
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  7. azspeedfreak

    azspeedfreak New Member

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    hey mike w. i agree with what you are saying, what are they guys smoking there is no way that me or any other blown car will run a teen!!!!with the current overdrive that we run you will never seen a teen with a blown car, and NHRA will never let us change so that we could run a teen, if they do i will run naked in the pits at pomona finals!!! i wish people would do there home work before they start saying things they don't understand!! i persoanly i would love to see a blown car in the teens, but i will never happen in my life time!!!!!!!!
     
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  8. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    MAN IT IS WAY TO EARLY IN THE SEASON TO GET THIS WORKED UP!!!! LET THE WEATHER WARM UP AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HEAVY HITTERS WITH THE BLOWERS COME OUT OF HIDING. I CAN TELL YOU THIS THE 98 % RULE SUCKS. NOT THAT IT HAS NOT HAD SOME EFFECT BUT IT IS A PAIN TO ADMINISTER. YOU CAN NEVER BE SURE IF YOU ARE LEGAL UNLESS YOU DROP BELOW 98 WHEN TESTING THE FUEL. NHRA HAD THE WRONG CALIBRATION ON THEIR HYDROMETER EARLY IN THE SEASON WHEN CARS WERE TESTING AT PHOENIX. THEY HAD TO RUN THE PERCENTAGE AS TESTED BY THE NHRA OFFICALS AND AS IT ENDED UP WAS AT ABOUT 93.
    SOME ONE WHO IS TRYING TO OBEY THE RULES IS GOING TO GET BURNED AND THATS NOT RIGHT. AT THE HOUSTON RACE I HAD 97.5 IN THE TANK AS TESTED RIGHT BEFORE THE RUN BY NHRA OFFICIAL AND AT OTHER END IT TESTED 98. REMEMBER ONCE CHECKED AND TEMP CORRECTED IT SHOULD ALWAYS CHECK THE SAME. MY POINT IS THAT IT DIDN'T NOT EVEN WITH THE SAME DIGITAL METER. NOW WHAT IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN 98.5? I DON'T THINK THERE IS MUCH BICKERING AMONG THE RACERS AT THE TRACK IN THIS CLASS BUT MOST OF THE NOISE COMES FROM WEB SITES. AT POMONA THE BLOWN GUYS WERE NOT CRYING FOUL. AND AT HOUSTON ONLY ONE BLOWN CAR SHOWED UP (JEFF WILSON). I DIDN'T HEAR HIM CRYING EITHER. IN FACT ALL HE DID WAS ALMOST WIN THE RACE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO JEFF AT GAINSVILLE BUT THE AIR WAS BETTER THERE BUT HE DID NOT RUN AS GOOD AS HOUSTON AND DNQ. YOU KNOW SHIT HAPPENS, THATS THE NAME OF THE GAME.
    GIVE IT A BREAK FOR AWHILE!!!!!
     
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  9. mike w.

    mike w. TAFC

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    My original statement was "Bucky would put hillary Wills car in the teens or twenties" under the 0-300' weather conditions. You can argue all you want, I still think Bucky has the ability to do that.

    I never said that I could or would do it, but that would certainly be my goal if I was tuning one of these cars. I don't understand why so many of you are unwilling to think you can go faster.

    It's been a lot of years since Santos went .26. I don't have any doubts that Santos would have made some progress in the last few years and be going faster today.
     
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  10. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Mike W,
    Good post. Right on!
     
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  11. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    If you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.
     
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  12. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    Mike W. & Nitrohawk,
    Not such a good post. Santos never went 5.26. The best he ever ran was 5.28, and on a million dollar budget. Shields ran the 5.26 at below sea level conditions on an awsome track. For some reason the Santos clan must have decided the future didn't look so bright. They quit didn't they?

    Have a good day,
    Marty
     
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  13. mike w.

    mike w. TAFC

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    The old million dollar budget deal gets kind of old. Many lower catagory racers would love to have "almost any" alcohol racers budget.

    I'd like to be able to afford the tow cars most of you have, let alone the race equipment.

    You've all chosen to run an expensive catagory and you new that from the beginning, so it's a llittle silly to keep blaming the budget for other peoples success or your lack of it.

    Irregardless of their budget, Norm Grimes and his crew really worked and thought a lot harder than most other teams running at the time. The money alone did not create their success. If Norm didn't like a part he invented something better. That takes a machine shop and brains more that it does money.

    The Santos family never had a huge budget to run their small block, but through brilliant thinking and driving they sure beat up on a lot lf big budget teams.

    The point I''ve constantly tried to make and you all continue to ignore is simply this "If you don't try harder It's not going to happen". Negative thinking is never good in any endeavor.

    The old joke is "It's not rocket science, it's just drag racing". Unfortunately it really is rocket science or maybe even tougher.

    Progress in drag racing requires extensive research and study of existing and new technologies and the willingness to explore new areas and concepts.

    Greg Anderson has constantly proven the point I keep trying to make. He has literally made fools out of the pro stock community by thinking outside the existing box. All he really did was hire smart people who utilized the laws of physics and modern engineering concepts to the best of their abilities.

    How many physics, fluid dynamics, technology or engineering books have any of you BAD racers studied this week?
     
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  14. Doug Watt

    Doug Watt AFD

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    Nitrohawk,

    Your statement is right on:

    AT THE HOUSTON RACE I HAD 97.5 IN THE TANK AS TESTED RIGHT BEFORE THE RUN BY NHRA OFFICIAL AND AT OTHER END IT TESTED 98. REMEMBER ONCE CHECKED AND TEMP CORRECTED IT SHOULD ALWAYS CHECK THE SAME

    I posted this a couple of months ago:

    All AFD are going to have a problem... We tested 97.8% before the run in the lanes on Collin's hydro, and at the other end in fuel check it was 98%. This is going to be a big problem, because:

    1. temp changes

    2. hydro differances

    3. the guy reading it.

    My sugestion is to measure it in the lanes and put a seal on the tank. This will also speed up the turn arround time.

    I hope this gets straighten out before someone gets DQ'd.


    Doug
     
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  15. DragRacer

    DragRacer new

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    Sorry to hear Gunderson is selling his operation. It must really say something to others when a guy that was that involved in his sport and just ran 5.20 wants to get out.

    It will be interesting to see if the blown cars do surpass the AFD guys when it heats up...

    There seems to be good points on each side but it does seem that giving the BAD guys "something" would be in order if the AFD guys keep whipping thier asses when it heats up.

    Well see.
     
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  16. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    I think it's safe to say that Until these classes are separated, No one will ever be happy.
     
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  17. M Tigges

    M Tigges TAFC

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    AMEN DARREN!
     
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  18. Lee Callaway

    Lee Callaway The Gov

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    Mike you make it sound easy behind a keyboard whats your track record?? come clean..
     
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  19. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    mike w. sez:
    "The old million dollar budget deal gets kind of old."

    i think that line certainly deserves a nomination for one of the dumbest lines of the year. clearly you don't sign checks on a car. i don't either, but i do treat the team i work for's money like it was my own.

    i'm sure the million dollar budget line does get old when it puts your points about blown cars needing to do this and that in a different light.

    your examples of greg anderson and santos/obannon are the top of their classes. anderson has a r&d budget that many teams are still trying to catch up with. obannon had enough of a budget to put together an extremely talented team, and feed it a bullet every run if need be, not to mention a great driver. norm grimes and a few of those talented guys worked full time on that deal. the brain power, machine shop and time factor that you left out that it takes to r&d something all costs money. not to mention testing and dyno time. trust me, i'm sure there's a lot of good ideas floating around out there amongst the so called nieve blown racers out there, they just may not have the time and money to do it.

    but like alan jackson sez, 'here in the real world, its not that easy at all' alot of smart people with pretty decent budgets have been trying the 'outside the box' things that some people love to harp on, and still haven't found the 5 teens.

    i dont think there is anyone much smarter than norm drazy out there, and certainly nobody out there with any more desire to out run the a/fuel cars. he came up with an 'innovation' to run with the a/fuelers, and it was rendered illegal. it's not exactly like he gave up on the alcohol cars, but he hasn't came up with the 5 teen alcohol combo yet.

    you make it sound like the people running blown cars are pretty much, stupid, for lack of a better word, and the 100-200k a year they may be spending to be a tenth behind may be chump change.

    i'm all for open debate on this site. i'm not for people talking to other people like their stupid.

    [ March 22, 2005, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Will Hanna ]
     
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  20. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Sometimes I think that there are many people in cyber land that think all a-fuel cars can run in the teens. In fact there are very few. Most don't have the budget or knowlege to acomplish that feat. Thoese that do have many years of experience and countless runs to get to this point. It is not as easy as some might think to run teens and 20's without a blower and with a small displacment motor. Will should be able to testify to this.
     
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