Any ideas what this Cause of hurt bearings? Pics inside.

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by gmhpwr, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. gmhpwr

    gmhpwr New Member

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    Hey guys, I’m pretty new to this hemi stuff so please go easy on me
    A quick rundown on the situation/combo and try give as much info as I can so sorry for the longish post.
    I have a twin turboed 526ci kB +.100 block. 4.5” stroke x 4.310 bore. 7.176 rod
    Has a set of BAE fuel twin plug heads with 1 plug blocked. 176cc chamber.
    With a arias 81.9cc dome. SCE copper .080 headgasket. Iv worked out comp is around 11.2.

    This engine is pretty new to me been to the track 5 times with it.
    One of the times 2 on the injectors failed causing cyl 3&4 to go lean. 1500’s on the egts while the rest were around high 1100’s and low 1200s. Those 2 cyls took out plugs and when I got home and pulled the pan those big ends were hurt as I expected. (My fault not having the Ecu shut the car down when egt got hot)
    I had the crank re linished to clean it up. and clearances have ended up at .005
    I put a new set of bearings in and this time being cautious we added fuel to the engine after our last scare. It bought the egts back to around 950deg F. The engine has 29degrees at around 25lbs of boost,
    I went back to the track and did 3 burnouts and two 8th mile hits.
    Bought the car home and pulled the pan. And this is what the big end bearings look like this time around.
    To me it is different to what I had seen last time but the last time the tune was extremely unhappy and the bearing was peeled due to detonation I assume.
    This time around I would have thought the engine was happy. 950degree F egts and 29deg of timing.
    The plugs have no cad burn off the ring but the ground strap is dark and hard to see a timing mark on it.?

    I’ guess my question to you much more experienced people is . Looking at these bearings is this the start of an unhappy tuneup/engine or is it an oiling problem.?

    The car has a wet pan with a waterman oil pump on it. It came on the engine when I got it. I was to
    D it was off a top fuel deal and flows more. In saying that the outlet fitting going from the pump to the systems 1 filer is -12 but looking at it would prolly only flow what a -8 or maybe -10 would? I log oil pressure at the side of the oil filter adapter (will move it to engine this time round) and it had oil pressure throw out the run but the pump is very rpm dependent with the bypass all the way out the thing idles around 50-60 psi but at 8000rpm is up at 200-210 psi.
    I run the Lucas green oil in a 50w (similar oil to the Brad peen I believe just easier to get were I live)
    Could it be that the engine has high oil pressure but not a lot of volume (even thought the pump is apparently high volume) due to the strange fitting feeding from the pump to the filter restricting it?

    I have attached photos of random bearings from best to worst. You will notice there is small bubblely spots on some bearings also. Not sure if it could even be contamination? I’m happy to admit I’m pretty lost and would like to find a soluition.
    Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction of tune up or oiling issue ect.

    One last thing. The bearings are a clevite CB1512V 010


    Thanks for your time. FFAF3B2B-7FED-4540-87B7-B68745391F44.jpeg C59C8869-105B-4CEF-A612-83B3C44BB006.jpeg 04E9AB4D-AEF8-43ED-9B9B-A2A1E19917FA.jpeg 9ECE2F46-83C1-4875-8D0F-EE94D25435C6.jpeg CD07CFAA-D6AC-46B2-A5FB-D0FF3D5D70AB.jpeg
     
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  2. secondwindracing

    secondwindracing top alcohol

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    I would check my line hone
     
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  3. gmhpwr

    gmhpwr New Member

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    As in the main tunnel?? It's hurting Rod bearings?? In saying that the main tunnel had just been line honed
    Thanks for the response
     
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  4. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    Might want to recheck your math on your compression, I did the math on your 526 with that bore and stroke your at a 548 incher.

    The one with the copper showing is that possibly one that you had the journal repaired?

    Do you crank up oil pressure before you fire it? Depending on what you had apart and when the last time you run the car it may take some time for the oil pressure gauge to jump up.

    How much are your bearings squished from a new one, if any? If it’s squishing the bearing there’s a tuneup issue.

    Do you have plenty of oil pressure for the entire run? Is it dipping at the finish or when you deploy the chutes?

    What did your oil look like when it came out was it alky contaminated or did it still look like new?
     
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  5. bandit496

    bandit496 Member

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    Did you flush out he oiling system before reassembling when you had the motor apart after the first calamity? Are these the same rods the second time?
     
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  6. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Bore x Bore x Stroke x 6.2832 = 525.22808 C.I.
     
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    Sandracer695 and gmhpwr like this.
  7. gmhpwr

    gmhpwr New Member

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    Thanks for the reply guys. The bearing with the copper showing actually had a fresh rod put in as the old one got damaged. But it also was the normal that had been repaired/refinished.
    As for priming the engine with oil. I have a Moroso accumulator on the car so that primes it prior to fire up. Weather that is maybe not enough?
    I will have to measure the bearings. But I did notice one or two bearings were not tight in the rod or cap once they came out(pulled inwards at the the sides).

    On my data it is saying it has had oil pressure throw the run.

    The oil didnt look bad or contaminated when I drained it out. Sadly I have thrown the oil out then decided to check bearings.

    Before re assembly I had washed the block gallery’s ect as good as posible.

    They are the same rods from the last drama less 1 rod I replaced with a new rod as it spun that bearing. That rod is actually the one with copper showing.

    Thank you for your help everyone.
     
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  8. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Bore x Bore x Stroke x .7854 x 8 = 525.22808184
     
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  9. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Bob Meyer you should tell him where you get your nails done.
     
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  10. Bob Meyer

    Bob Meyer Comp Eliminator

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    Randy; same math, but 1 step shorter......means a lot to an old fella!
     
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  11. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    You guys are correct, sorry I wasn’t paying attention, bore is normally listed first and the stroke next, not the case here, it does state however which one is which, an oversight on my part. Thanks for keeping it honest fellows.
     
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  12. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    I have a 2 gig memory capacity. I can't remember any more numbers so I have to stick with what I learned many years ago. New information is confusing, and as I get older any new information purges old information learned in the very beginning. Like remembering where the bathroom is and stuff like that.
     
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  13. mogenss

    mogenss Member

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    #13
  14. tc1216

    tc1216 Member

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    just my 2 cents, rod bearing wear on the sides usually means the crank is flexing, ie, the crank is cracked. look real close in the radius, that's where they like to crack.
     
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  15. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Member

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    You could have an initial oiling startup issue. You can see in one of the photos that the bearing has pulled away from the brass centering pin. I would make sure your oil accumulator is functioning and connected properly.
     
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  16. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Member

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    One other thing I noticed is the bearing number you gave us, clevite CB1512V 010, are undersize bearings not oversize. For oversize bearings there is an X at the end of the number. I would check your clearances again.
     
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  17. gmhpwr

    gmhpwr New Member

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    Thanks for the reply so guys. I had previously checked side clearences on the set prior to these besrings. But I will actually go back and revisit that thanks. I will also check for cracks but crank was checked before going back in last time.
    I will also run the acumulator to see if that is deffinitly all working still.
    As for the bearings? Am I incorrect in thinking it is undersized bearings I need? The crankshaft has had .010 taken off it ? I thought undersized bearings were required in this instance and oversize bearings were designed for a larger/oversized bearing bore on the I. D of the bearing?
    Thanks for your response
     
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  18. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    Thanks for posting that’s neat.


    My initial thought was startup oiling as well, with a hint of dirt or trash.

    You can take a hammer to the counterweights and see if the crank rings, if you hit one and it ‘thuds’ it has a crank in it. In my experience the cranks without the Center counterweights flex in the middle and can touch the edges of the bearing. Front rod journals can flex also due to crankshaft loading of the belt hence the switch to the bearing support front covers.
     
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  19. drew556

    drew556 Member

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    You need to prime the engine before first start up I don’t think the accumulator is enough for intial start up of a freshly rebuilt engine 2nd why run an accumulator been running blown hemis for 20 years never needed on 3rd if you have a question about the lines to the filter fix them they should be -12 if you think they are not change them as for oil pump we run the p&p / rcd wet sump pump never had a problem
     
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  20. Ron C

    Ron C Jr. Dragster

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    Pre-heating the oil does wonders. Firm believer in that along with pre-lubing.
     
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