AJ 481X Not refilling the dry sump tank

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by SMOKIN JOE, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. ta455

    ta455 Member

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    42095 Zevo Drive, Unit 7
    Temecula, CA 92590
    VOICE: (951) 296-2110
    FAX: (951) 296-2111
    email: info@daileyengineering.com
     
    #21
  2. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    Ran mine this weekend, drained the pan every pass. I do think its stuck in the valley. The CN blocks dont have very large drainback holes .
     
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  3. BUTCH

    BUTCH Member

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    Oil in the valley on a run

    All,
    I have been running New Centrey soild BBC block for years , there is a lot you can do to fix this problem, call Lowell at 618 466 6383, He can give you the does and don"t about opening up the oil returns in the valley, also Call down to Dan Olsen and have them build a pan for the wet sump, I also had a kick out on the even cyclinder side of the pan, it really made a differance.

    Just my 2 cents and good luck .

    Butch
     
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  4. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    A kickout on a deep skirt block "really made a difference"
    Are you talking HP difference or a oil control difference?
     
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  5. SMOKIN JOE

    SMOKIN JOE Member

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    Dailey contact info

    Thank You !
     
    #25
  6. blwilliams

    blwilliams New Member

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    Butch, are you saying use a wet sump oil pan with the drysump oil system?
     
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  7. afueldigger

    afueldigger tire wiper

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    We have been dealing with this same issue on the nostalgia funny car.......this weekend was it for me......we lost # 3 rod because at 4.2 sec the tank was sucked dry and of corse the oil pressure dropped like a rock.....I think it is a combination of the gears in the P&P pump and the fact that oil is not getting back to the pan......We run the early hemi rodeck block and the valley is indeed a big oil trap.....the block is going on the bridgeport this week to fix the drain back issues and a new system 1 pump is on its way......I have had it with this oiling issue.....these things try hard enough to hurt themselfs when all is right let alone when you have to worry about sucking the oil tank dry........will follow up with a post to let you guys know how we fix it and how it works out:mad:
     
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  8. REEHL EQUIPMENT

    REEHL EQUIPMENT Active Member

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    When you came back to the pits, was the pan full?
     
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  9. BUTCH

    BUTCH Member

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    oil in the valley

    BLWilliams, Sorry about that I run a wet sump in my dragster with a titen pro pump.

    SodDak, what it helped with was oil control on the run. Not H.P.

    A few years ago I had a crank break on a run at about 700 feet, it kicked out 3&4 rods, it had put a big hole right in the middle of the pan looked like a hand ganade went off, I was able to got off the track, out of the car, got my helmet off and I was looking under the car and there was a very little oil on the track I though it was all out??? and a few seconds later it really started to dump out. and that is how I got on the idea that the oil returns in the valley and heads really needed to be opened up, It was just a observation after a really bad run that help my program. and I hope it helps someone else!!!

    Butch
     
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  10. overkill69

    overkill69 Member

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    wetsump

    on our wetsump KB olds we drilled and tapped the rear of the heads in the valve cover rail area and ran 3/4 hoses to the pan. We metered the oil system to the top until it burned up pushrods and then gave it a little extra. A chevy will hold at least 5 qts upstairs when staging. I don't know about a hemi but our olds has decent size return holes in the lifter valley but it dumps on the cam and crank so it probably just turns into a windage mess.If I had a dry sump i'd seal the lifter valley and put a suction stage in the rear of it.
    I thought our external plumbing and accusump setup was a pain but draining the oil after every pass is ridiculous on a state of the art engine. There's enough to do between rounds.
     
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  11. outracer

    outracer Member

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    I have the same problem with a BAE. I was told not to filter the oil going back to the tank the P & P does not have enough pressure on the return side. I also had the vent for oil tank going to the same puke tank as the engine and was told this was building up back pressure in the tank. The System One has more pressure on the return side but the pump is longer and you can have chassis clearance issues.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  12. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    The filter part makes some sense, I took the cap off mine at idle-thinking about the back pressure, didnt flow any more.
     
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  13. JP

    JP Member

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    Ok, i have the vent plumbed right in the chassis so it goes the same way as the breather tubes. have you changed the vent and tested it?
    i dont filter the line to the tank , just the ones going back to the engine.
     
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  14. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

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    quote

    "You know why they call them oil returns? Because they return oil on the return road." - Norm Drazy.
     
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  15. outracer

    outracer Member

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    System One is who told me not to vent the oil tank in the same puke tank as engine mine was also in frame and ranto tank. I have not tested their theroy yet but it make sense to me. I hurt a crank with no oil in the tank I am going to got to wet sump when I go back racing for now I am only going to run 1/8th mile
     
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  16. Moparious Maximus

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    This is the old man talking here.
    We run a dry sump system in our car. It's a old Weaver 5 stage pump 4 suction 1 pressure. All of the lines are 12s. We will have around 2 quarts of oil in the pan maybe 3 at most after a pass. The 4 lines will drain back what is in them and whatever oil is up top will end up in the pan. We run around 9 quarts TOTAL oil in this system. We run around 160 to 180 psi oil and .004 - .005 clearance on rods and mains. You can see ample oil being returned to tank when running. All 4 suction lines are in the bottom and rear of our pan. The tank is home made and has a slope to the rear of engine.

    I think what you guys need to look at is how the pressure side delivers oil and at what volume. Now think about the suction line. There is no way one suction line can return as much oil as the pressure side is pushing out. If a pump could suck that hard it would suck the oil line closed. Now add to that the oil in the top end and stuck to the crank etc. It just plain won't work unless you run a very large amount of supply oil. I think at a mininum you need 2 pickups on the return side and 3 would be better. Most of the time your suction line is pulling AIR not oil anyhow. If a wet sump system pick up is left to pickup air what do you get? wasted bearings.

    All I know our system Works and like I said we run 8 to 9 quarts of oil....... This is on a 572 inch blown KB wedge headed Mopar. I would also add we run filters on our suction lines that have a course screen in them but the catch a lot of stuff when things go bad we have lost 2 lifters in the past and they caught all the heavy stuff.
     
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  17. wagspe208

    wagspe208 Member

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    I don't know jack shit about hemi dry sump stuff. I do know a lot about dry sump systems.
    A pump with 1 pressure section and 1 suction section is not a dry sump. It is a joke. It is a waste of money with good advertising. As posted above, you will need a minium of 3 scavenge sections. 4 or 5 is better.
    Hell, if you have to drain the pan anyway, just remove the scavenge section and drain all 16 to 20 quarts a run.
    Someone has sold you guys some snake oil.
    Wags
     
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  18. Barry Ferriolo

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    if you think that pump is a joke - than tell Frank that after he runs a 48, and the motor comes back in perfect condition. i was recently told by some guy that does fuel systems on the west coast, that most of that oil is trapped in the top of the motor and drains down... especially if your motor shuts off after you lift.
     
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  19. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

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    Ok I got an idea here. Why not run a standard wet sump type of system with a dry sump pump, seal off the lifter valley as best as you can (most are pretty tight to begin with) and install the suction pickup there and return the oil to the pan instead of to a tank. Seems like this would keep the oil where it needed to be, in the pan, near the pickup, instead of lying in the top of the engine and hoping that you have enough in the pan 'to cover you' until the end of the run. What is the benefit of running a dry sump oil system anyways? I thought the idea was better oil control overall and piece of mind if you happened to blow something out of the bottom end because most of the oil should be in the tank. Seems like this isn't happening and needs some re-thinking to fix, solve, or make the problem better.
     
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  20. Barry Ferriolo

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    as Bruce Mullins would say..."don't try to reinvent the wheel". just do what Frank does.
     
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