AJ 481X Not refilling the dry sump tank

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by SMOKIN JOE, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. SMOKIN JOE

    SMOKIN JOE Member

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    I have a problem w/both my screw blown 481x's, Both of them have the pleuger pumps,Dan Olson oil pans,Steffs dry sump tank, 16 quarts of oil. With the oil tank filled apx.5'' down from the top, when you start the motor the level will fall some and not refill, Ok,The big thing is after making a 1/8 mile hit and letting the motor idle allmost to the end of the track or clicking it off early, the oil tank is allmost empty and I have to take the diaper down,Drain the oil pan,and refill the tank,every stinkin pass! Terry at AJ's said with a screw blower it's the nature of the beast and something about the boost created, the oil suction side can't keep up. Other than switching to the daily dry sump system, is there a option in a bolt on pump to replace the pleuger pump that will keep up with the suction to refill the oil tank ? Is there a wet sump setup for the AJ 481X so i could posably do away w/ the dry sump? Draining the pan every pass sucks, Please help.
     
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  2. REEHL EQUIPMENT

    REEHL EQUIPMENT Active Member

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    Call Steve Faria at System I. 559 687-1955.

    I know that Team Force took off all of the Plueger pumps, and replaced them with System I.
     
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  3. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    I noticed the same on mine at the Houston ADRL event.
    go to drain the oil tank and has about a quart in it! Same deal, screw blown 481x P&P pump.
    I thought it was draining back to the pan.
    I just converted a friend of mine's to a wet sump,on the standard pan, and we'll see how that works
     
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  4. Moparious Maximus

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    How many scavange sections do those pumps have?
     
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  5. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    They have one scavenge and one pressure section, both gears-housing the same I believe just stacked together
     
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  6. JP

    JP Member

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    Our brad 5 hemi does the same thing.

    I welded a fitting and fitted a #6 hose with a quick disconnect end to the oil pan Then got a oil changer pump from west marine and now I don't need to drain the oil pan . Just connect the pump and either change or refill the dry sump tank.
     
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  7. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    481x oiling

    I recently noticed the same problem with my 481x and 14/71 hh. Exact same set up - pluger + olsen pan. I run 18 quarts of oil in my tank and it gets low at the end of the run. The motor has excellten oil pressure (150 + pounds). I sure hope the fix is not to move the oil back from the motor to the tank. a. burnet
     
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  8. AFC357

    AFC357 New Member

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    Good post as I too have had this problem for YEARS! Have a couple pumps. Sent one back for re-building to see what that would do. Just cost me $650 and didn't fix a thing! Like to hear what might fix this, other than a System One pump!
     
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  9. REEHL EQUIPMENT

    REEHL EQUIPMENT Active Member

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    I think the difference is the System I has a lot bigger scavenge system.

    Once again, call Steve Faria at System I for the answers.
     
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  10. Moparious Maximus

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    With one suction side I think its amazing they work at all.

    Our pump has 4 stages of suction and it has a hard time keeping up with our motor, and its nowhere near what you guys have.
     
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  11. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    I just put my other motor back in the car, with a different Plueger pump. Will start it tomorrow see if it's any better or not.
    I have the Lahey pump manifold deal, then filter back to the tank thru a system 1.
    18 qts total 1/8 mile only
     
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  12. DQUES

    DQUES Member

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    I think the problem is the oil is not just sitting in the bottom of the pan waiting to be sucked up at wide open throttle , it is being flung off the crank in a 360* circle . It does not just hit the block pan rails or the sleeves/cam tunnel and run back down to the bottom of the pan . Also think about how much oil could possibly run down from the small drain back holes in the bottom corners of the heads in 4-6 seconds IF it wasn't under crankcase psi or accelleration . At idle the tank level somewhat is stable because of the low rpm it can keep up but not at WOT . The pump can suck the oil out of the tank in 4 seconds but it can't return it if there is no oil to be sucked at the pick up . Do yourselves a favor , drill out your pan plug and tap it 3/8' npt , go get a 3/8 pipe to #8 90 degree male nipple , run a length of hose inside your diaper to the front of the pan . Put a quick disconnect fitting on the end of the hose then get a pump and pump it back into your tank , no mess and no drain pan , no diaper removal . You can use push lock hose to do this , only down side is you may add 1-1 1/2 pounds to the car but well worth it ! .
     
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  13. REEHL EQUIPMENT

    REEHL EQUIPMENT Active Member

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    Another possible cause is the gerotor design may not like the high RPM, unlike the spur gear design.
     
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  14. shawn davis

    shawn davis Member

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    I fired my other motor last night, At idle there is just a trickle of oil from the pump thru the filter back into the tank.
    Oil level in the tank dropped at least 5-6 quarts. I put 12 in the tank and 6 in the motor before starting.
    Has a -12 return to the tank and the amount coming thru it looks like a -4 would be sufficient!
    I'll convert to a wet sump before I pump the oil pan dry every pass
    Any other ideas?
     
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  15. ibaddlizzard@aol.com

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    we run 20 qts in our 481x and have to drain the oil pan after 5 runs back to the tank .:cool:....Doc
     
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  16. weld_everything

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    top oil?

    While running a TFX block and Plueger pump a modification was made to the lifter galley to improve the return of oil to the pan. If you are running an external or supplement oil to the valve train then it would be easy to have a gallon or more oil laying there. FWRC offers a pump with valley/galley scavenging. Cutting slots or holes is a more cost effective method. just my .o2

    Bryce
     
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  17. overkill69

    overkill69 Member

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    dry sump

    I never have understood the hemi style drysumps that carry 20qts and barely scavenge anything. With weak scavenging its not a drysump. You don't get the horsepower gains from less windage and it's heavy and expensive.
    I run an olds motor wetsump with a titan pump and a lot of mods to keep all the oil from accumulating upstairs. I run 12qts in the pan and 3 qts in the accumulator. I could probably carry less oil but it works and I don't sweat the weight. I've turned 9200rpm in the 1/8th around 2600hp.
    I consisered a drysump but I was going to run a prostock style deal with 4 scavenge stages pulling out of the lifter valley,heads etc.Definately not 20 qts in the tank.
    Years ago Oddy told me my deal would never work wetsump but a lot of guys in ADRL are switching to wet for the weight savings now.
    I guess the theory on these hemi drysumps is feed the bearings 20qts of cool high pressure oil and forget about it after that.
    Mike
     
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  18. SMOKIN JOE

    SMOKIN JOE Member

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    dry sump

    Is there a contact number for the Dailey(spelling?) dry sump system ive seen on some pro-mods? Thanks.
     
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  19. blwilliams

    blwilliams New Member

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    Interesting thread.
    Glad to see we are not the only one with this situation.
    Were running a 4 stage suction on an Aviad dry sump system. We also find the oil canister pretty much empty at the end of a run, and have had to resort to manually draining the pan and transferring it back to the canister.
    Many calls with Aviad and Dan Olsen have been interesting, but have not been able to come up with a solution.
    OK, now here is the interesting thing. We used to run a regular Dart big M block with a Dan Olsen dry sum pan and the Aviad dry sump system. Worked perfect.
    We changed to a skirted New Century solid aluminum block and a new Dan Olsen dry sump pan and have had the problem ever since.
    So this leads me to believe like previously stated that the oil is stuck up in the lifter valley, or the shallow New Century style pan is not doing its job.
    This is on a blown 540 CI BBC 1471 hi helix T/D.
    I obviously do not have the answer to the problem, just wanted to share my experience.
     
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  20. Danny Humphreys

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    Me too

    This is what we did too
     
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