AFD gets 40 deg 95%, converter cars lose weight break

Wow

Of the top 10 in National points, 5 are of each configuration ????

5.22 at 276 best in AFD this year

5.21 at 275 best in BAD (600' btw)

Confused as to why they added 50 pounds to converter guys after they worked hard to get close. Hit them when they are dominating the class maybe.

I must be looking at this wrong. This is gonna add entries ????

Bill Moore

 

Do the blown cars get 40 degrees also.

 

Nope, not that that would make much difference in comparison.

 

Strange changes!!!

If you take out Jim Whitelys wins in 2013 who in my opinion is the exception to the rule and was untouchable in tad and would continue to win 2014 championship as well had he not retired .AFD will really dominate the class now or am I wrong? Giving them more doesn't make sense and we get one converter guy hauling ass and now no more 50 pounds give me a break.... Brutal ,guess we all need to run the same and not run any faster cause all that happens is they step that group back....sick!

 

Im an A/FD guy and i personally thought it was fine the way it was. You know its fine when the bitching stops......or at least slows. But welcome to NHRA's world.

To me the core problem here is mixing alcohol and nitro in the same class. Fix that problem and everyone runs faster!

Dave

 

Exactly,..why should the dragster class only get Alky and Nitro,.??? Give the Funny cars Injected Nitro too,..!!!!!






But YES, these new rules are plain stupid, and why they even thought this up at all just shows that its all ran and decided by idiots,.!!!!!

Oh and by the way Pro Mod has a new deal with NHRA,..so sorry for Top Alcohol anything..!!!

YOU TOP ALKY RACERS/OWNERS need to do something and make a stand and case in point to get what is yours, and what you deserve.

You are a Performance show that gets beat up on every chance and at any event they need to make up time and you all get the short end of the stick.!! AGAIN..!!!!


Vic Miller

 

I was told by a racer that knows a few things about each type of car that the problem has been that to get an A-Fuel car to run in the .20s on a regular basis, that you burnt a set of heads each pass.Thats a lot of scratch for a sportsman racer to turn loose after every race weekend. My deal is a blown alcohol combo so don't hate on me for delievering the message. LOL Maybe the A-fuel racers will just not lean on their shit so hard now and the performance will stay about the same.. I'm pretty sure that if A-fuel starts dominating the class the NHRA will hit them again. Just my two cents. Jody Stroud

 

you need the right air to run 20's with either type. Leaning on an a/fuel car if you are at 3000 feet will not get you in the 20's on a regular basis not matter what you do.

Rule changes look a bit suspect to me.

I know they have data but I am sure there were 7 or 8 blown cars that ran in the 20's

Whiteley, Demke, Severance, Booher (or was a 30 his best), Martin, Cowie, Perry, Taliaffero

A/fuel cars in the 20's, nine at least (I did not look through all the div regional events so likely there were more)

Reichert, Shields, Ahten, Page, Bateman, Meyer, Kanick, Bradshaw, Gingles

Based on those stats it makes sense that A/Fuelers got a few breaks j/k

Dean

 

Suspect to say the least Dean. Maybe Hugh Ridley has it right in parking his car.

I wonder if thats the desired reaction?

Bill

 

Bill,
It is just a very tough world out there and it is powered by money through the expertise and technology that it affords. Hugh and Ray spent a lot to get us to a full card of events which we had not had for the last several years for various reasons, but mainly money. I really have to thank them for giving me the chance to sharpen the pencil a bit through the season.
The current format is all but hopeless for a Western car unless you can afford a stunning amount of travel for car and crew. Having said that, 3 of the top 4 cars in the "world" this year are from the west and that should tell one how deep the pool was...at least I noticed how hard we had to paddle to keep from taking on water week in and week out.
To me, it seemed very even this year between the blown and fuel cars and I am actually very surprised that they are making changes and particularly ones as big as for the A/F cars. It is probably because they see those as the T/F tricycles.
The 50 pounds for the converter cars is silly when the big deal is allowing them the 2 step to leave at major boost. When you factor in the R/T potential the ET does not have to be as tight to go a lot of rounds.
All the debate about the PSA and what needs to be done seems fairly clear. To make any progress will require the ProMod model. A sponsor or sponsors will have to step up and pay NHRA to run the events and then it will become a promoted show. I see that 8 of those events are east in addition to Houston and Vegas at the end of the year.....so you don't have to go that far west unless you are in play at the end? I'm making a joke............really though it all has become so mid west/east coast focused that it is becoming E(ast)HRA rather than N(ational)HRA. I don't think I'm negative, just realistic and seeing how the game is played today. I'm very happy with what we did this year and I guess I'm just going camping next summer. Good luck with your program next year.
Jeff Johnsen

 

All good points Jeff and thanks, mix in some fishin' with the camping.

Bill

 

The R/T argument is silly, plenty of drivers both blown/clutched and a/fuel can cut great lights. That said there are guys running torque converter setups who cannot cut great lights. Everyone has the same potential to cut lights, one guy in a dragster who has been doing pro tree racing for 20 years and is barely 30 hardly constitutes a flash in the pan/it's easy to cut a light mantra. We don't leave at WOT on our car, it is commonplace in pro modified but I believe the way I do it is in fact better for a non-suspended chassis/dragster. That said there is no remarkable boost numbers against the brake on the line. The two-step is in place because we cannot roll in at rpm, this is the only way to run the car against clutch cars. We actually ran ours without the two-step until 2012. The two-step just gives a consistent number RPM wise on the line. Our performance has come from tireless development of new parts and pieces, continually having Cantrell coat the blower to cover that end of the motor, and having a good understanding of power management. I'm aware everyone else works hard, spends money, etc etc..; but you don't see my team whining for handouts. Our car rolled the scales at weight (2075) all year except maybe Indy Regional (first race). Once we got the balance where it needed to be and some other items addressed, the weight was as previously mentioned. The real baffling item is Jim W. goes 5.17@277 and nothing; we run 5.307 and boom rule change. To me it is an insult that they don't believe we should be able to run that fast, that said I don't believe any of the rule makers could tell me bit one about a car or how to run one. I don't think the rule changes are with merit, I think it's the byproduct of a bunch of whining but that's the world we live in. I will not be deterred and will continue my trek as planned for 2014. There are some new items we will have and run, the car should run a bit better because of it.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #3
Torque MGMT. - Owner

 

Brandon,
I debated saying anything at all because I pretty much figured how this would go but then thought that as I will not be out there next year I could offer a somewhat balanced comment to the discussion.
On the weight, most cars (no comment on your particular car) are a little or a lot overweight so adding 50 pounds would not actually be adding 50 pounds so it is just as bogus as when they took 50 pounds off the converter combo a year ago.
On reaction time: there are good and less good cars and drivers out there. You are certainly free to argue that lifting a finger is no faster than stomping your right leg or lifting your left leg while stomping your right, most folks will have their opinions in this area. Personally, I haven't noticed many clutch cars in Super Comp.
On boost @ the launch: When we were east I had the chance to watch you stage your combination and could see how far your B/V arm moved when the brake was set and I agree you were not WOT but you were way into the throttle; I do not know how much boost you have but it would certainly have to be much more than the 5 or so pounds of a clutch car. It is a fair comment because it was outlawed in the class but put back in for the converter cars and as you just said it is not required but is a help setting your rpm; it is not that easy to leave at a perfect rpm in a clutch car either and if it is not a big deal as you indicate then it would not hurt to loose it? You would just have to be good at getting your rpm right like the clutch guys.
After qualifying, most r/t's improve as the cars are typically rolling in a little or a lot. That sacrifices e/t and that is where your combination gets an advantage if the button were faster; that's all, it is just my opinion. If I thought your combo was too much better we would have run it, but that is not my opinion. I simply made a single comment re putting the 50 pounds back on your combo, which is as phony as when it was taken off given the car weight realities.
Just one other thing on "special rules" generally: you are not allowed a lockup converter but we are allowed to lockup our clutches; that is not fair and you should be allowed a lockup converter. Of course, as you know, if you restrict the oil dump from the converter it locks up anyway. I would like to see fewer special rules and more go for it heads up racing with the best combination you can build. You seemed to be a very nice young fellow and we all know how hard we have to rub on our equipment to get it to run. The big change here is for the A/F combo and only time will tell what brought on these changes and how fast this will make them in a broader spectrum of conditions.
Good luck next year. Jeff Johnsen

 

I also can't believe there were any rule changes, both types were as close as they could get.

 

was the 2013 rule 92% nitro.

Brandon, were you at weight this year or were you over.

wasn't the quickest you ran a 5.307/271

So based on technology how quick will an a/fuel car go in 2014.

 

We were at legal clutch car weight. My intention was to remove the 50lbs for this coming season. We had removed 40lbs for 2013.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #3
Torque MGMT. - Owner

 

The weight break was given because of the disparity in "slip" between the converter and clutch. While we managed to run extremely well and the second fastest blown alcohol pass in history, we are still seeing nearly 800rpm difference at the finish line. As this was the case for the break (so I'm told - they never conferred with me) this issue is still present so why rescind a rule. We worked very hard to remove 40lbs. for this season, we shouldn't be penalized because other won't spend the time we did. I don't want to hear the $$$ issue either because we are close to the least funded teams out there.

I have my foot on the brake, finger on the button, and heel shoved in to stage. When the tree flashes; remove foot from brake, remove finger from button, and roll from heel to toe. This is as many if not more movements than in the counterpart cars, because most don't understand it does not make it any less complex.

Our motor is between 4-4500 RPM so I'm not sure what you may have seen, but our butterflies move .125" at the max.

Whether the combo is better or not I could go on all day why it's superior; money, reliability, attrition rate etc. etc.. etc... but you are entitled to your own line of thought. I would point to pro mod where money is no issue, we could count the competitive clutch cars on one hand and still point a finger or two. The button is the button just as the pedal is the pedal and the foot is the foot. Any part is only as good as the piece operating it, whether that operating piece be mechanical or human it all rings true and the same.[/QUOTE]

Restricting the exhaust side lead to a pile of broke parts. The lockup converter is an idea, but it's every bit of a $20k experiment that not many want to undertake without legality being established within the sanctioning body. They don't want to open up to it without results present first, that coupled with the aforementioned makes it a bit of a quandary. My personal opinion on the A-Fuel rule change is two part. 1. It doesn't matter to me or change my plans/how I will run my car. 2. I don't think it will amount to much more than a few hundredths.

Brandon Booher
NHRA TAD #3
Torque MGMT. - Owner

 

Well said Brandon.

 

"Racers Want Answers"

Isn't Jay Hullinger and Glen Gray in charge of the Alcohol class ? Jay seems like a very nice guy, could he please respond to this site and let us all know what is going on and how everything went down! NHRA wonders how to get racer car counts and spectator counts higher!!! Its an easy answer. Do the opposite of what you did with this issue. This is the kind of crap I got so tired of with the NHRA organization when we raced, "NO HONESTY" "NO TRANSPARENTCY" "NO TRUST". I like all the a-fuel and alcohol racers the same and not to add fuel to the fire but I just returned from the PRI show where someone came up and told me the reason they made the changes was because an A-Fuel Tuner-Owner who rents out there ride was not happy with there performance the last couple of years and wanted some changes. I hope this is not the only reason. I will not say who told me or who they were talking about because it is only a "RUMOR" and does not matter. But I think NHRA owes all the racers some answers! Will thanks for the space. Richard Putz