A-fuel vs. BAD

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by The Leveler, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. The Leveler

    The Leveler New Member

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    okay, my view on the alky funnies is they are still getting faster so we dont need to worry about that issue yet:D the a-fuelers are still setting records so no need to worry about that:D the bad guys are stuck in the middle no records:mad: now every time they have have a rule change people go out and grenade there motors and such at first but after they get a grip on the new tune up's new records are set:D so in this day and age with the amount of corporate sponsership in the sportsman ranks the people with those sponsers can usually figure it out pretty quick and before you know it they are setting records then the info leaks down to the little guys and kapow competition for most!! just my two cents by the way if there is a div race in cali this weekend i am pretty sure whiteley will be there
     
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  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    pretty easy

    i think performance would be a pretty good indicator of anyone running a c blower in tafc. it would be hard to get the tuneup right and only run marginally better than a d blower at the lower od...

    i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with some sort of case modification to make it obvious which blower was which.
     
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  3. bryanbrown

    bryanbrown Member

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  4. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Cost of rule changes

    When someone talkes about the cost to change engine size or for a different blower for the BAD it sounds like a lot of money and the inferance is that the fuel car has no cost associated with just a percentage change. The fact is when you factor in the number of runs and parts attrition it takes to figure out how to get an a-fuel car with only a one percent change to get down the track without dropping cyls and making decent power it can take a lot of money. Not to mention at what point do you need to change the whole engine combination. The last time we had a one percent change it took some of the better a-fuel tuners a lot of runs to get back any where near where they were at. Did a handfull figure it out? You bet! At what cost? Ask them. What gets me s that we havn't even gotten to the summer where the a-fuel cars are really effected by temp. and altitude and here comes a rule change.
     
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  5. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Here's a question, if running higher RPM allowed the TAFCs to make up for the reduced overdrive, then would they have kept running at 9000 (or whatever they were at before) and kept running the same or would they have reved them up anyway with the old overdrive to continue to improve ets?
     
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  6. O.J.D.

    O.J.D. New Member

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    Cody, good Q, but you already know the answer. People are going to push them as hard as possible, thats the nature of the sport. It does not matter what rule changes are made. TF is pushing to get 90% back. They claim it will allow them to drop compression and stop hammering rods. But, I think they will figure out how to run the higher pressure and just not change anything.

    As far as the conversation about C & D case identification, I was told they where the same casting with a different bore which makes external ident. impossible. I also heard if you want a new blower, your going to wait quite a while as PSI is backed up for a looooong time. I doubt you could get anything this year...
     
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  7. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Will I think if you polled all the FC guys you know about this, I bet they vote for 125% in a second! Think about how much less Motor carnage your talking about, around 600-700 RPM I bet!
     
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  8. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    not today

    darren, right after the change, yes. now i don't think you would have as many votes...

    first off most teams don't have the pump gears, trans gears, etc., to go back to 125. so they would have to redo fuel systems, buy new gear sets, new clutch combo's etc. today's blowers are alot better than 2000, the last time they ran 125. someone that has a good running car now isn't going to want to start over. i'm sure if someone still has the parts on the shelf, they might. if they sold it to help pay for all the new equipment, i'm sure they don't want to go through it again.

    it's one of those things that is here to stay.
     
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  9. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    I can see where your coming from parts and all. But I can't see racers turning down a combo that doesn't need 10,000 RPM to make HP?:rolleyes:
     
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  10. Dale Finch

    Dale Finch New Member

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    overall, 125 over allowed the blower to go supersonic sooner. the old tune up was simpler. the rest of the stuff is not major except trans ratios. remember the maximum engine size was 565 back then and 541 was common. This lowered boost as well especially at the hit.
     
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  11. Tad117

    Tad117 Member

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    I don't know about everyone else but in order to run low 60's in 99 and 2000. You still had to run the motor to 10000 at least that is what we had to do.
     
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  12. Dale H.

    Dale H. Member

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    Racers are going to turn as many RPM as they deem safe no mater what the overdrive is!Why would allowing more overdrive have anything to do with reducing RPM? The move to 92% was to reduce engine damage from the extra strain boost puts on a motor.
     
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  13. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    Dale! Dale! Dale!:(
     
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  14. angelo stanton

    angelo stanton New Member

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    oldshoolracing

    Don't have blown cars spend more money??? "cheapest and easiest way to gain parity is keep cutting % of nitro down until it"s acheived" So let the injected cars spend the money to acheive parity??? :rolleyes: IT'S NOT HOW MUCH MONEY IT COST THEM(injected) THAT MATTERS, IT'S WHAT IT COST ME(blown) THAT COUNTS... Nice way of looking at things.........
     
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  15. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Dale, Randy Goodwin could probably explain this as good as anyone. But at 125% they wouldn't even try to turn those Motors 10,000 RPM! They could hit the Powerband much sooner, I bet they could dyno the same HP at 9,400-9,500 at 125% vs 10,000 RPM at 92%!
     
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  16. Dale H.

    Dale H. Member

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    I have'nt run my TA dragster for a couple years now but let me ask this question then, are the guys that are running blown Tad, and went from 115 over to 125 overdrive shifting at a lower RPM? These motors with camshafts of 116 to 118 degrees lobe seperation would probably go 12,000 RPM before they "peaked".
    My opinion on the Levelers original question about why cars have gone faster with the same overdrive over the past few years is the analogy that Manzo,running .40's, having the same parts and pieces as alot of the other guys running .50's and .60's, has "the" combination working closer to 100% than the other guys.The longer you tweak with a certain combo, the more you can get out of it.
     
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    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  17. Darren Smith

    Darren Smith New Member

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    Dale I should have specified the FC's not the Dragsters. The 452 CI Dragster Motors I have No idea if they turn them less or not.
     
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  18. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    O/d

    We have found that we can shift about 200 RPM sooner without losing any performance, since the new O/D rule. The intake runners max out at a lower RPM, and soon after that your just wasting your rod run count.
    See ya,
    Marty
     
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  19. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    With the intake runners max'd out, is it producing the same or more boost at 200 less rpm?
     
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  20. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    boost?

    It is producing more manifold pressure (where we measure it), because we can't get naymore flow through the intake runner into the combustion chamber where we need it. At the new O/D, our normal burst panel life (without banging them) has cut in a third.
     
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