A/Fuel Funny Car

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Randy G., Nov 9, 2007.

  1. ITS IN MY BLOOD

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    I know one thing for sure,.....
    This injected deal gets more ink, talk and BS`ing than most
    any other post around when it comes down to it.

    NO,..... Nhra will never mix a/fuel with TA/FC`S ,but yet
    all this chatter and attention,.... Jeeez,..I would think that all you
    alcohol class racers would stop concerning yourselves with
    what class someone can drum up next, so you can make the
    switch over to run it,(which costs money),

    ..but yet instead

    Why dont the TOP ALCOHOL CLASS`S lobbie
    to get more money, and
    payouts for all of your hard earned efforts.
    whats there to be scared about,.. loosing the classes,..I THINK NOT,..
    having to run an injected car,..HUH,..obviously not.
    Even with a sponsor its alot of money to run an alky car, especially
    if you hit all the races.
    other than the love of it,..and thats probly all,..
    why would you spend $5,000 just to get to a race and 2 runs,
    to qaulify, and then if your lucky enough to win, after 3 more rounds
    we will just say $1,000 per round,..WHY do this for only
    $2500 @ divisional and what $5,000 at the nationals.

    DO YOU LIKE PEANUTS,..HELL NO !!!!!!!!!!!!

    WE LIKE CAKE AND ICE CREAM........NOW GO GET IT.

    didnt mean to derail,...AF/FC, but there is a lot of interested peeps
    in the a/fuel deal,..why not actually make money from it too.


    oh well sorry for the disturbance


    Vic
     
    #81
  2. eli

    eli Banned

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    Here's a thought, All the racers that build one of these AF/FC, will be at the same leavel, cuz no one has any data on them, and if you think Manzo is going to give up 33 years of data, and 3,500 runs in a TA/FC your nuts. he will just step up and kick your a$$. ;) :D
     
    #82
  3. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Raising payouts are the big discussion with the Pro's right now, too. So getting them to raise our purse will only happen if we get a series sponsor that will pay for it and demand that a portion of the sponsor money be used to raise the purse, unlike how the Federal Mogul deal worked where all it did was make it so the relatively unchanged payout was covered by sponsor money, leaving the sanctioning body off the hook for most of the original purse.

    I remember Marc White running a track record 5.56 in qualifying at the Winternationals in my car in 2004. Eric Lotz came to my trailer and said "I bet you guys are getting ready to head to the tower to collect your check for being number one qualifier. Well, unfortunately I have to tell you, this is the first race where we aren't doing that any more." Thank you but the sponsor left the building starting in 2004...and that was that.

    As far as this conversation goes, for the most part I think it's gone pretty well. A lot of great dialogue has taken place.

    Worrying about the grocery list of people that jumped to TA/FC to get away from A/F or what kind of noise they make is great, but I like the technical aspects and there have been some great points made. To me, none of the higher-ups seemed to care what anyone thought when they cut the overdrive or removed our classes from National events. So why would anyone think the decision to allow or not allow AFC would be based on the list of those who switched to get away from A/F or that Bucky, Clint, Topping, Hirata and many others for that matter say they just might be running it.

    If TA/FC keeps puking all over the track like they did the first session at the Finals NHRA might will be looking for a cure-all. A/FC is one they might consider, like it or not. The other cure-all might be the door. Given the choice, I know what I would chose.

    RG
     
    #83
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
  4. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Mike:

    That was about 14 years ago.

    I was telling some friends in Seattle this year when we thought it might get rained out I didn't see what the problem was with the rain and all. Heck, we (Dobbo and I) made a blast in our TA/FC's in the rain at Fuji International Raceway near Tokyo. It was kinda weird, actually. The rain water was coming in through the roof hatch right in our laps and, man, those winshields sure do leak, too. No wipers and no defroster, except that once the engine got warm the windshield defogged from the heat off of it. We put a sandwich bags over our ignitions to keep them dry.

    Dobbo got a lot of heat from the car owners for getting a little crazy on the track on that pass.:eek:

    RG
     
    #84
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
  5. Pat McGill

    Pat McGill Member

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    Good point, Randy. All classes need to do a better job keeping oil and parts off of the race track.
     
    #85
  6. EX-NSP

    EX-NSP New Member

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    Af/fc

    Looking at Randy's proposal from an abstract direction, NHRA need to recognize injected nitro funny cars as a prelude to eliminating blowers in both AA/FC and TF/D. In other words, NHRA should plan ahead for what SHOULD be the NHRA Cars of Tomorrow.
    (And of course, make Pro stock a 4 cyl/V6 torbocharged class- but that's another thing)

    Taking adequate weight out of the two top pro categories and allowing more cubic inches, with the blowers gone, would eliminate;

    Blower explosions and at least, minimize oil downs

    Down time for the TV package, meager as it may be

    The potential of turning one of the NHRA "Stars" into a chitlin.

    Less work for the Safety Safari

    Costs

    But would also:

    Make people whose names are Boggs, Reichart, Hopewell, etc. in great demand.

    Somebody needs to think outside of the envelope and beyond the bottom line.

    Whew, off my soapbox!

    Ex-nsp
     
    #86
  7. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Pro stock is a whole 'nother discussion.

    Remember "Race 'em on Sunday, sell 'em on Monday?"

    Back in Pro stocks infancy you could by a hemi powered Cuda on Monday.
    But today you can't buy a 500 CID Grand Am on Monday. And you can't buy ANYTHING with carburetors.

    If I were in charge (we'd all be in trouble) Pro stock would look more like Brad Personett's turbo charged Toyota. The younger generations could relate and would be more interested in a class that more resembles what you can buy today. Plus, it runs 6.40's at almost 220 miles per hour.

    I think I'll go stink up Nitromater with this idea. LOL.

    RG
     
    #87
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
  8. EX-NSP

    EX-NSP New Member

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    Af/fc

    You and I BOTH know we're right about Pro Stock.

    I darned well know I can't buy a Cobalt with GM truck motor in it- wouldn't fit sideways, if nothing else.

    Sick-em on Nitromater!
     
    #88
  9. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    I just did.
     
    #89
  10. Michael Veskovich

    Michael Veskovich New Member

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    The things racers do. Cool little Story Randy :)

    Mike.
     
    #90
  11. Ken Sitko

    Ken Sitko Super Comp

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    With all due respect, I think the notion is insane. If it was for some kind on "B" nostalgia nitro class, it doesn't bother me, but to go down the same road as we have with the TAD's would be foolish. The TAFC's are running so close together (the guys with the $$$ and knowledge, anyway); why would you want to introduce a car into the class that could run at least 2 tenths quicker?
     
    #91
  12. M gibbs

    M gibbs f/c matchracer

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    a/fc AGAIN!!!!

    Well guys & gals, i still have mine!!still match racing it w/alc set up, but still works great. HELL LETS DO IT AGAIN!! So we can spend another 35.000 grand to swap it over& nhra pull the plug??? my car is Gary Rettell last car, i crewed on it, & worked with brother steve in the dyno shop, GOOD TIMES! BLEW ALOT OF CRAP UP, But made some killer runs too. you can see my car run on my web site video, the first 2 passes were at nashville. 2 weeks after them putting down new concrete , Can you say S L I C K !!!!ICE, the 3rd one was pretty good, but i have too get a new camara GUY !!! KNOT HEAD, I still have most of a fuel set up from when we did that, but we hurt a lot of parts r&dn, But my frist love is match racin that were i stared workin bac in 75 crewen on my 1st flopper, As some of you know , if you can get down a dirt road, your doing good, & the crowd loves it, BIG BURN OUTS OH YEA!! YOU GUYS DID A GREAT THING BY MAKING THIS WEB SITE , THANKS MIKEY G. oh yea my deal is www.lynchmobdragracing.com hi JIMBO P
     
    #92
  13. Michael Veskovich

    Michael Veskovich New Member

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    Not to mention the record bump spots set at a few races this season, just getting in the field most races these days seems to take a good strong .60 ET.

    I do see some of the pros being put forward by some of the people on here, but at the end of the day my favourites will always be the blown alcohol cars.
     
    #93
  14. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    This topic is closing in on 6,500 views, 10 pages, nearly 100 replies...

    Great discussion!
     
    #94
  15. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    I guess that proves there is a lot of interest in this class, or at least a lot of concern. A-Fuel has become the stepping stone to Top-Fuel. Ashley Force drove an A-fueler not a TA/FC. Although, I'm guessing that might have been different if A-Fuel funny car were an option.
    The class needs to embrace and market the fact that it is the pre-cursor to Top-Fuel. What do Top-Fuel teams love most...........? Nitromethane!
     
    #95
  16. jb333

    jb333 New Member

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    I thought top fuel teams loved money.
     
    #96
  17. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Larry, take no offense. You and Rizzoli tune your deal and ran a .28 in pomona! That is what impresses me. I have much more respect for the crew chiefs and tuners in the sport than I do for the drivers. You are also good at the tree. But, don't try to tell me that driving your 300" dragster with plenty of downforce and 1 speed is as hard to get down the track as a 3 speed 125" car that skates around down the whole track.

    Why does TA/FC need changing?

    Respectible car counts, competitve, fast, exciting (Come on, who wasn't glued to the TV when Newb almost nailed the tree?)

    Put together your own class. Get your own series sponsor. And bring it in as an exhibition class like promod does at nationals. If its as good as you make it sound they'll pick it up as its own independent class, thus leaving the already healthy TA/FC class alone, and avoiding the parity parody that exists in TAD.

    Flash
     
    #97
  18. Don Hudson

    Don Hudson Supa fly

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    Just chiming in. I really didn't want to say anything. this has become a great thread.

    TA/FC for sale..complete. NFC here we come...;)
     
    #98
  19. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

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    why?

    Sure some people like A/Fuel better, some like cucumbers better pickled....but where is the smoking gun advantage to upset the current situation in TAFC?

    TAFC as stated several times in this thread, one of the few classes where the driver has significant effect on the outcome of a run. That said, THERE ARE GOOD DRIVERS DRIVING A/FUEL CARS!

    Larry, I plugged you over the PA at Pomona as a good driver, and I'll state it publicly here, you're one of the better drivers in A/F. Throwing weight out of the equation, how much different would the car run with any other A/F driver? On a good run, probably not much. Someone with bad habits may drag the clutch excessively, etc., and ultimately change the outcome, but for the most part, most A/F drivers would run pretty close. Now if you put a driver in your car that could leave on time, you might have won Pomona :eek: (you know I'm just ribbing ya....for the record he had a .007 against Reichert and usually has great lights). Now when they go to shaking, it takes some skill to do the right thing whether it be brake or pedal or just drive through it.

    Now lets turn to TAFC or B/AD. You can take Manzo's 5.45 and have a lot of licensed TAFC drivers turn that into a .50 or .60 or worse. When you get a blown motor that close to the edge, a healthy short shift might even kill the motor due to decreased pump speed. As Marc White put it, when you dump the clutch on a TAFC it's looking for something to hit, whether it's the wall, tree or other car. It's usually not going to go straight. So to have a great run in TAFC you got to hit your launch rpm, swap feet correctly, keep it in the groove, know the difference between Hoosier shuffle and real shake, hit the shift points, and keep it in the middle.

    Being a great driver is more mental than procedural. You have to have your mental game down to perform the procedures that accomplish a good run, A/F or Blown. Anyone that thinks A/F prepares you better for either or the T/F classes than B/AD or TAFC has never driven. Don't take that statement as saying A/F isn't a good training ground for the fuel ranks, which it is. I think saying it is better is wrong. A good driver can jump in anything and be competitive because they are sound mentally and know how to adjust. A TAFC is as good a mental test as any. I think Ashley would have been better prepared to go to Nitro FC if she had done a couple years in the A/F to get up to speed, then a year of TAFC to get used to the handling of a short wheelbase FC.

    Here's a couple glaring reasons why NOT to allow A/F into TAFC -

    Participation is good right now. I don't remember seeing a short field at a national event all year, in either category, which wasn't the case the past few years. There's a good balance in the category. Introducing A/F into that would certainly upset that balance.

    Introducing A/F would run more cars out of the category than new cars in.

    As stated above, TAFC is still a driver's race. You have to drive well to win. There are good drivers in A/F, but you can plug a fairly mediocre driver into a good car and win a championship.

    As far as cheaper....I think the degree of how much cheaper they are is greatly exaggerated. Now that spark plugs have doubled in price, how is it looking now? TAD and TAFC are expensive to run, regardless of the combination, blown or injected. All things the same, they are pretty close. Before the spark plug increase, on paper, A/F was marginally cheaper to run. Differences between budgets has more to do with tuneup and personel than the combo.
     
    #99
  20. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    Will, you say that Ashley would have been better prepared if she drove a TA/FC for a year. I agree. However, that was not the case. The next question is, why? I don't know but that seems to be the route most aspiring Top Fuel drivers take, Nitro. Who was the last Top Fuel driver to run a blown combination in the alcohol ranks? I'm sure it wasn't that long ago but since nitro has been a dominant alternative who has chose a blown combo? The car counts have been good and I understand not messing with that but lets face reality. This class is best marketed as the last step before Top-Fuel. If people watch that aren't drag racers they only watch Top-Fuel for the most part. If you market the class like the Busch series in Nascar as the next generation of Fuel drivers people might pay more attention. As we have seen almost all the latest Fuel drivers were in A-Fuel dragsters, so it only makes sense to have A-Fuel funny cars.
     
    #100

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