A/Foolishhhhhh

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by G.Reichert, Feb 18, 2004.

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  1. G.Reichert

    G.Reichert New Member

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    Yes thats right I think people who run A/fuel are a little crazy and yes my husband runs one but that doesnt mean I like it. I have seen first hand what can happen when one blows up. It happened a few years ago at Cinn Ohio and it left parts all over the place and three guys on the ground, so for all the new A/Fuel teams this year please be careful and remember NEVER NEVER NEVER get laxed on your maintence..............after each run and always make sure no one is standing beside the motor when you start your car.Always in front or behind the motor and dont forget to ask spectators to move so they dont get hurt if it blows up. Dont mean to sound bossy but the A/Fuels can be dangerous.....
     
    #1
    G.Reichert, Feb 18, 2004
  2. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    gloria,

    glad to see someone else pushing this issue. i raised this issue in a no shake zone over a year ago. i felt, and still do, anyone that works on an a/fuel car should have to go through a nitro safety course and safety should be discussed daily by teams. i see now that nhra and vp are doing something of this nature, but i think the program should be taken to the next level.

    i didn't dream up this, rather, looking at methods in industry that have significantly lowered job related injuries and deaths. not too bad a goal to strive for.

    in the mean time, i would hope that some of the top a/fuel teams would take matters into their own hands and set an example for other teams to follow instead of good ol boy'n it and sayin 'we know what we're doin'. put a safety program in place on your teams and make it public.

    safety is hard to measure because it is trying to prevent stuff from happening, so if it is measurable, it is only because something bad happened. don't wait until there's another statistic...
     
    #2
    Will Hanna, Feb 18, 2004
  3. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    for those of you that may not have read the column i wrote back in '02

    6/19/02
    The No Shake Zone

    Alcohol Racing without the SHAKE!
    by: Will Hanna, Editor, InsideTopAlcohol.com

    A/Fuel Safety

    Safety. It's a word that is becoming more and more commonplace in today's workforce. It's also one of the founding principles that the National Hot Rod Association was built on.

    Drag Racing, as any motorsport, carries a certain risk. So do many industrial jobs, but both go on in spite of the risk.

    As time has progressed in the industrial workplace, over the years, safety programs and increased safety awareness have dropped accidents and deaths at the workplace. As safety became more and more of a priority, the number of accidents subsided.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the more dangerous jobs require increased safety awareness. Well, a very dangerous job has arisen in the NHRA pits over the past few years - the A/Fuel Crewmember.

    With the current combinations that are ran to be competitive in this class, if certain safety procedures are not followed, an A/Fueler has the potential to be a bomb in the pit and on the starting line. The static cylinder pressures that some of these cars have coupled with the extreme volatility of nitromethane under pressure is the reason why this combination has became so dangerous. The reason why their Top Fuel counterparts do not have as much danger is that they run considerably less static cylinder pressure due to the fact they run a supercharger.

    Over the span of the last five or so years, we have seen several explosions in the pits and on the starting line that had the potential to be deadly. While most would think that the new, less experienced teams would be the most at risk, it has happened to some of the seasoned veterans (I hate to name names) such as Gene Snow, Jerry Darien and Dave Hirata. Were these teams incompetent? Hell no. We are all human, and it just goes to show that any one of the teams out there could make a mistake that could lead to an explosion.

    Ok, we've identified the problem and potential risk. In any problem solving process, you identify the problem, find a way to fix the problem, and find ways to prevent it from happening again. One potential way to prevent these explosions from happening is to institute an A/Fuel Safety Program.

    Let me get one thing straight, I by no means think that the A/Fuel cars should be eliminated to 'fix' the problem. Rather, I feel that safety training and increased safety awareness can prevent these accidents from happening, and potentially save someone's life.

    The program I have envisioned would be similar to the safety programs that have been adopted by chemical plants and other industrial sites around the world. Start with mandatory safety instruction, and then emphasize jobsite safety to increase its awareness. Safety programs do not eliminate the risk of an accident, but rather by driving the message to the workforce on a regular basis keeps people's mind on the risks and ways to eliminate the risks. For example, a worker that has a daily safety meeting telling him to wear safety goggles if he performs 'job x' is more likely to remember to do it rather than a worker who had weekly or monthly meetings. The worker may have known before he ever took the job, or went through their safety program to wear safety goggles when doing a 'job x,' but is far more likely to wear them as a result of increased safety awareness.

    The first step of such a program would be mandatory safety training for all drivers and crewmembers on an A/Fuel team. Before gaining starting line credentials at a national event, each crewmember would have to show his current A/Fuel Crewmember Certification. The training would consist of a video showing the risks associated with handling nitro, analysis of past accidents and what could have been done to prevent them, and proper start-up and maintenance techniques for safe operation. To complete the training and gain certification, a test would be given, with a mandatory score of 100% to pass. This program could be created in such a way that it could be given by NHRA Tech at any given event (Friday morning, per say).

    To keep the theme of awareness going throughout the year, at every event, each crewmember would have to turn in a safety/risk assessment card in addition to their certification to gain credentials. The card would be handed out by NHRA tech during tech inspection, and would have to be filled out personally by each crewmember. The card would make the crewmember identify several potential risks, along with ways to eliminate those risks.

    This program would be across the board, no veterans would be 'grandfathered.' Sure, and I would hope, most of the teams out there know the proper procedures for operating an A/Fuel Dragster. I'm sure that some of the teams out there will consider such a program to be a 'pain in the ass' and 'unnecessary,' just as some NHRA required safety devices and programs are. On the same note, many of those devices save lives, and this program would be no different. By increasing the awareness of the risks associated with these cars, and the proper way to operate these cars to prevent potentially deadly accidents, nothing but good can result.

    Let's face it. I hate to be blunt, but with the number of A/Fuel cars on the rise, it's not a matter of if another explosion will happen, but when. Every time one of these explosions happens, there is the very real potential for someone to get killed. I firmly feel that the above proposed safety program will decrease the frequency of these accidents and save lives. Through constantly emphasizing how dangerous these cars could be, and the ways to prevent accidents with the training and event safety cards, you have succeeded in making every crewmember that handles A/Fuel cars THINK about safety. Without such a program in place, there is not anywhere near the safety awareness.

    Let's look at the worst-case scenario - a pit explosion happens, and someone gets killed. Not only would this be a horrible accident, but also people are going to look at what could have been done to prevent it. Let's not wait for another accident and someone dying to get a safety program in place. Such a program would also reduce NHRA and the team owner's liability in such a case by showing that something was being done to try to prevent the problem as opposed to nothing.

    I'm sure some of you are saying, 'why are the a/fuel teams singled out.' I think that eventually all classes, from alcohol up should have similar programs in place. The A/Fuel cars, however, are a large risk that needs to be addressed immediately. Once the ball gets rolling to create such a program, it will be easy to spin off other programs for other categories and classifications.

    In closing, while it will be impossible to measure, if this program saves just one life, or saves somebody an arm, or keeps them out of a wheelchair, it will be worth it. I would ask the input of the A/Fuel racers out there to help get the wheels in motion on this program. My idea may not be the fix, but at any rate, something must be done, and soon. I would like to see a program of some sort in place by the 2003 season, if not sooner. Anyone who feels that this is stupid and nothing needs to be done, please feel free to give me an email, and I'll discuss it with you.

    I would also encourage those interested to forward any comments on this matter to NHRA as well.
     
    #3
    Will Hanna, Feb 18, 2004
  4. G.Reichert

    G.Reichert New Member

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    Training is not a bad idea Will but who would do it? I dont think NHRA would have a clue.... I would be more than willing to tell anyone who comes over to our pit area how we do our maintence to get all the nitro out of the lines and out of the cyclinders. Its not that hard but you have to use common since with these cars and dont ever get laxed because it will bit you in the butt everytime if you do. I am probably too causious but Id rather be too causious then dead.
     
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    G.Reichert, Feb 18, 2004
  5. Langenhammer

    Langenhammer New Member

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    I agree completely, a couple years ago, we were at Pomona on the starting line and were given the O.K. to start the car. Then they made us shut off for some reason, (I don't remember what it was). Even though we had only started up on alcohol, and not switched to "Bomb Mode" (lol) we made the decision to take one spark plug out of every hole, remove the fuel lines that feed nitro to the motor, and spin the motor over with the starter motor, we were kind of hassled by the starting line crew for holding up the show, but we told them that it is much better to delay things a little with safety, than a lot with an explosion. It's just the way we do things EVERY time we start the motor, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
     
    #5
    Langenhammer, Feb 18, 2004
  6. Mr Scary

    Mr Scary New Member

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    I heard Dave Hirata had a Bad one that injured his father. If somethging like that happened at a Natl. in the Staging lanes, that would be Bad for the A-Fuel guys!
     
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    Mr Scary, Feb 18, 2004
  7. Corey

    Corey New Member

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    Will
    I also beleive what your saying is not a bad idea but I must also say there needs to be SAFETY in both cars in the class the B/AD need to get there act together also .The biggest thing is to Respect there equipment.As soon as you don't respect it .It will get you.
     
    #7
    Corey, Feb 18, 2004
  8. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Maybe the a-fuel guys in TARA could come up with a safety check list of do's and don'ts for first time injected fuel racers to be avaliable on request. This said I would say that I have been following the afuel crowd pretty closely for about four years and other than the Hirata blowup
    I personaly don't know of any others. Their accident was certainly not caused by lack of experience with fuel.
     
    #8
    nitrohawk, Feb 19, 2004
  9. G.Reichert

    G.Reichert New Member

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    Dave Hirata was parked right next to us when that happened and it was awful. They were parked uphill alittle and during the night nitro got in a cyclinder and the next day they didnt roll the motor over befor putting the plugs in so when they hit the starter switch it blew up.Thats why you should never get laxed and think things are ok... You should always double check....It was just a simple mistake but costly. One thing we dont do is hook our fuel line up until were in the staging lanes just as Bill is getting ready to get in the car. Dariens blew up one time and he said it was from going up to the staging lanes at a track where they had to go up and down some hills and they were just steep enough that it got just enough nitro in it and when they hit the switch to start it, it blew up.......Didnt someones blow up on the starting line last summer and someone on the starting line got hit in the neck with something ?
     
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    G.Reichert, Feb 19, 2004
  10. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    Gloria,

    the guy who got hit in the neck was the starter at Rick at Houston last year. It was not a starting problem that caused this accident. The afuel car of Carl Brokawsky (excuse spelling)blew up when he hit the throttle and a piece of head gsk. blew back and hit rick. When we first put the car we are running together I built some small
    stainless sheet metal guards that bolt to the front motor mounts and funnel any fire from the end of the head down and away from the mags,timing
    boxes and fuel lines. They could easily be installed rear as well and weigh very little. We had ours on the car at Houston and the tech guy came over after Ricks accident and looked and said they would look at making them mandantory but guess nothing happened.
     
    #10
    nitrohawk, Feb 19, 2004
  11. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    Will, I think that's a great idea. We've all seen teams that don't respect the power of nitro.
    I've walked away from cars in the pits when they were starting after watching their pre- start routine.

    I think Hirata said it was only a cup or so of nitro that caused that HUGE explosion. It doesn't take much. I believe the biggest thing is having an exact routine, that is known to be safe, and strictly adhering to it everytime. If possible the same crew members should do it and never deviate from it.

    What will happen when a fan gets hurt by an explosion. We all know they stand pretty close when people are starting their cars. I don't think most of them know how dangerous it can be, and they can't tell when someone is not safe with their start-up. I'll bet NHRA would do something if that happened.
     
    #11
    ch3no2, Feb 19, 2004
  12. Mr Scary

    Mr Scary New Member

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    Just out of curiosity, why don't TF cars have those problems? Is it that they take the extra time to prevent it?
     
    #12
    Mr Scary, Feb 19, 2004
  13. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    Danny- the blower clears the cylinders (99.999% of the time, BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN like the Kallita team last year, at least I recollect that it was Kallita- there will be a drop of liquid in the cyl just a little bit before TDC = BOOM!) if you don't start on Nitro- but switch over after - no problem.
     
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    was R4K, Feb 19, 2004
  14. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    Danny- the blower clears the cylinders (99.999% of the time, BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN like the Kallita team last year, at least I recollect that it was Kallita- there will be a drop of liquid in the cyl just a little bit before TDC = BOOM!) if you don't start on Nitro- but switch over after - no problem.
     
    #14
    was R4K, Feb 19, 2004
  15. G.Reichert

    G.Reichert New Member

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    Same crew, same routine, and everyone having their own job to do is really a good way to do things. What really makes it hard is when we dont get alot of time in between rounds. Two years ago at Topeka after the frist round on sunday which was second round we only got forty minutes. The offcial came by at 12:20 and said to be ready to go at 1 and at 1:eek:o he was back after us and then the next round we got forth five minutes. I heard at Pomona for the finals in Nov that Morgan and Mike only got a half an hour which is crazy and dangerous. We all have our jobs but we always double check by asking if certain things got done.
     
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    G.Reichert, Feb 19, 2004
  16. eps938

    eps938 Super Comp

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    Pro Nitro car teams are just that (usually) - Professionals. Money and manpower to do the job professionally. A/F teams are by and large amateurs with little money or manpower to do the Nitro job properly and safely. Maybe a full time partner or two and a couple of guys who show up at the track to "help". They usually bring their girlfriends to barbecue the chicken. Consider putting a college football player on a professional team - not the same league. Same with T/F compared to A/F - not the same league thus a greater chance for error.
     
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    eps938, Feb 19, 2004
  17. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Yeah what he said!

    jOkA!
     
    #17
    Kevin Brown, Feb 19, 2004
  18. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    eps,

    It's not that top fuel guys are so much better, they only run 6.5 to 1 compression ratio's compared to 12 to 1 in A-fuel cars. The harder you squeeze nitro the more pissed off it gets. That's why you see top fuel guys starting the car with a squeeze bottle of alcohol and almost instantly switching to nitro. You can't, or shouldn't do that in an A-fueler because it's unsafe with high compression.

    It's not that a-fuel guys can't do it safely. Your way off base. I'll bet some of the A-fuel guys are safer than top fuelers. It really has nothing to do with money and manpower it's all about knowledge and respect. If you know the dangers you know you must be respectful. You make it sound like there is nothing but incompetent idiots playing with these cars. You are far from reality if that's what you think. This isn't Z stock automatic.
     
    #18
    ch3no2, Feb 19, 2004
  19. eps938

    eps938 Super Comp

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    ch3no2: Common, get a grip - odds are that if you can choose between a guy who has ten to fifteen years experience, makes his living as a thirty to thirty-five event well paid member of Bazemore's team (for example), and has the luxury of having the focus of one or two major tasks - or - the other guy who may be a very fine machinist from Monday through Friday, is enthusiastic, can help out on Tuesday nights at the shop and come along to the track on race days I opine that you would choose the pro. Anyone with common sense would - it's a no-brainer. The pro will give better odds of properly acomplishing the task in a safe and efficient manner. I have great respect for the amateurs and am truely impressed with some of their accomplishments. But, give me the pro any time - odds are you will have a better chance of survival - compression, cylinder pressure or Chinese Nitro is not the point. Been there done that - both ways, and lived to tell about it.
     
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    eps938, Feb 20, 2004
  20. ch3no2

    ch3no2 New Member

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    It's apples and oranges. Obviously, the pro guys do this as a full time job. We are talking about sportsman racers, most of whom have other full time jobs. It's not fair to make comparisons between the two. The point of this was about safety. It sounded like you were of the opinion that most or all A-fuel teams weren't capable of being safe. Not true. Most of these guy's are very safe. Granted, there are exceptions. I don't know who's pits you've been hanging out at, but in the ones I've been around the guys and gals both are knowledgable and respectful regarding the car, the fuel, and all safety issues. As I said, there are exceptions. A safety course couldn't hurt anyone. To imply that all of these people are second rate amateurs is not accurate. Running in the 5 teens would indicate to me that someone must know what the hell their doing.
     
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    ch3no2, Feb 20, 2004
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