96% the new flavor in A/FD

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    No offense Nitrohawk, but this rule is a plus move for a/fd's that were not running 5.2's (if you are not in that category, I apologize) but it brings the 5.1 tune ups back while you are still figuring out how to go that quick- levels the playing field for you is my guess (for a while anyway). So why does it hurt you to read this thread?? The top fuel cars figures out 85%, so you should be able to figure out 96, and think of all the fuel you now save---
    I heard that if Joey had not done so well at the last 2 races it likely would have gone to
    95 %.
     
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  2. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    Agree, truth is tough sometimes
     
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  3. nitrohawk

    nitrohawk New Member

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    4 second runs before long!!!!

    R4k,
    According to your logic, if they keep dropping the percentage of nitro the afoolers will be running in the 4 second zone.
    Please don't compare running an engine with an air pump on top to a naturaly asperated one much less on nitro.
    The real problem is with always penalizing the a-fuel cars is there is a lot of others out here like me. I guess truthfully we have no business running the class at all because of financial considerations. When they make a rule change like this in the middle of the season the well funded cars will make 20 runs or more testing the new fuel percentage befor their next official race. So who does it end up hurting not the guys who are well funded who are running the numbers but the many bottom half feeders like ourselves who race because we love to and we can. There are no winners in this so called parity issue. But no one yet has been able to explain to me why the blown dragsters today even with more overdrive and the use of lock up clutches are not running as good as they did five or six years ago. So I guess if this latest move doesn't slow the afoolers down enough we will get hit again as the new od rule doesn't seem to have helped the blown cars. Or is it just a matter of someone getting it figured out?
     
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  4. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    Good post.

    I believe Will wrote a real good article explaining the last part of your post.
     
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  5. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    Bob- it has been explained numerous times why they were quicker (BAD) 6 years ago--maybe you were not listening--
    Nothing I said could be extrapolated into 4 second passes with less percentage---I just said NHRA was slowing the hitters down so you would now be competative---were you competative with a 5.1 car prior to this week?? We certainly were not and we likely won't be competative with a 5.2 car next week- but we still luv the sport!
     
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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  6. Kevin Brown

    Kevin Brown Top Dragster

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    Someone PLEASE get some cheese and crakers.................we have the whine covered....

    Bob is right 100% there will NEVER be parity in NHRA in ANY CLASS!

    You never hear the AFoolers whine.....oops....they can't whine....they have NO blower!

    Hirata-san.....get in here and chops da broc-o-ree!

    KB:cool:
     
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  7. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I am guessing Larry is including me in having a 'real world discussion' on this topic.
    Sorry I don't own a TAD. But I am licensed (or was, it expired last year). I have crewed on one part time since the early 90's, and think I am pretty knowledgable in the class. (Yes only my opinion on the knowledge aspect)
    But the truth of the matter is that stats don't lie.
    Even this weekend three A/Fuelers are in the 5.20's, two of them almost in the teens, and three in the 30's
    BAD"s have three in the 40's. ( there is a .25 advantage this weekend for the A/F to the best BAD)
    Let them have the available technology out there NHRA.
    Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you Larry,;) just trying to point out the facts of the class (by the way of the actual numbers run in the class)
    Ask guys like Kevin Brown, and Gregg Lawrence and Ed Verenka (Smaller budgeted teams without a huge high dollar crew chief, sort of like you I am guessing), if they think I am biased. I am not.
    If the BADs were light years ahead of the A/Fuelers right now I would be sticking up for the A/Fuelers right now.
    I dream of the day where there is more parity, in this class. But the only way to fairly achieve it (without further handicapping the A/Fuel cars), is by allowing the BAD's more options then they have now.
    ( I can dream can't I?)
    Pro Mod is going through the same issues right now (but not quite as pronounced) as there is at least .12-.20 difference in the performance level
    Two questions for you Larry and would like an honest answer,
    #1. Do you think there will be relative parity in the class (both types of cars within a tenth of a second of each other), at even 50% of the events this year?
    So far there has been parity (div's and nat's) at three of 15 events
    #2. If you had the choice of going up against one of the top 3 BAD qualified cars or top 3 A/Fuel cars in round one, who would you pick (based on this year's performances so far)?
    Dean
     
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
  8. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    Dean, I like how you use data to support your opinion.

    This makes the discussion and your opinion on the parity issue creditable.

    Versus stating if you are not racing today your opinion isn't blah blah blah.

    I believe most people on this board have been involved in TAD racing and probably most have won division titles and national events. Or maybe not. But you get the point.
     
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  9. Henry Charest

    Henry Charest New Member

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    Is anybody here old enough to remember when Chess Bushey was beating on that dead horse, the A/F combination, and couldn't qualify anywhere? None of the BAD guys gave a hoot, he wasn't even a distraction then. Suddenly, after about 20 years, the combination began to take off, and the screamin' and hollerin' hasn't subsided since. Weight penalties ensued, and they were funny to all who knew of the lug and load theory, 'cause every time NHRA added weight, the motors got happier due to the fact they had more load on them and could burn more fuel.
    I see some of the Alcohol FC guys on here wanting to see injected fuel motors come into their class. Oh Boy!!!!! Let the gnashing of teeth and wailing begin, it'll be another Blown versus Injected deal, and the only solution for both dragster and FC will be SEPERATION of the ranks. Blown dragsters against blown dragsters, squirted vs. squirted. That is about the ONLY way parity will be reached.
    :rolleyes:
    Henry
     
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  10. larrymiersch

    larrymiersch Authorized Merchant

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    Dean, tjenna, etc.,

    With all do respect, again, it is much easier to comment on this subject when you have little or nothing to do with the tuning/owning/financing end of things.

    "Real world discussion"- I don't own a Top Fuel car. However, I have crewed on one or been involved/around one since I was a kid. I too think I am pretty knowledgable of the class. Does this make me a viable candidate for PRO?

    You are entitled to call it whatever kind of contest you like. Thats what you do and have done.

    No need to be coy. You know what type of budget I run on. If I can do it, so can you.

    You are right. Stats don't lie. However, I can skew the numbers any way I like. In my line of business there is a saying that goes something like this- "80% of your business will come from 20% of your targets." We can use this analogy here also. Roughly 80% of the TAD's competing today are AFD's, correct? Can we say that the best runs to date have come from 20% of the TAD's? Whatever the exact numbers may be, the point here is that a majority of the class is now AFD. The majority will usually produce the numbers.

    I don't care who I race. I love to race and will continue to do so.

    Both sides can go on about this for days. Apples are apples. Oranges are oranges.

    Good luck in your future writings,
    Larry
     
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  11. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    Larry,

    Appreciate your insite and sure "most" of the cars are AFd's today.

    As BAD teams (as O'bannan etc.) either go to TAFC or afd the parity issue will more difficult to really debate.

    But up until now you don't have to be a stat major to understand there is a performance advantage by the afd's. Soon you will have to do some real statistics to understand if there is an issue. I don't charge to much.

    Good luck.
     
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  12. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Here's a quick post cause I have a final in 30 min. but needed a break from studying. Afd's are faster. They have the ability. Those who have the ability are those who've worked on the tune up for years. (Reichert, meyer, galant) You can buy that knowledge, go ahead. If you want to drive a dragster, buy a drum of nitro and a tune up and hopefully no one in the pits gets hurt or a tire doesn't come apart as is shaping up to happen with the 280MPH speeds. If you want to run blown alcohol, put the motor in front of you and a body on top and deal with a little learning curve.
     
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  13. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    Larry you would make a good TF interview as well, cause you skirt the question with a pc answer, "don't care which I race".
    Also, When you have a vested interest in one of the types of cars I understand your bias, where as my job is really to look at all sides and the BIG picture so to speak.
    It is NHRA's job as well, but they don't seem to listen.
    As far as 80% of the cars being A/Fuelers.
    Not close to that total........YET!!!!!!
    In real numbers 2007:
    64 TAD cars total have competed.
    39 A/F's 61 %
    25 BADs 39%
    (a complete flip flop from 2004 and 2005)
    Five years ago, A/Fuelers made up 30% of the cars but were running 80% of the quickest numbers.
    A/F's run #'s in 2007:
    100% of the 5.10 runs (5 of 5)
    97% of the 5.20 runs (30 of 31)
    70% of the 5.30 runs (49 of 70)
    For a total of 80% of all the runs 5.30 and quicker (84 of 106)

    and just for fun.....
    61% of the 5.40 runs (36 of 59)



    I think I have a right to talk about this class (real world discussion), since beside this web site, speedzone is the only other site to seem to care about it.
    Dean
     
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    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  14. bobbyblue359

    bobbyblue359 New Member

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    OK OK I've been following the discussions. I designed and built my own blown dragster. Attac took most of the design and made fuel cars for Kaletta et all that required them to use a lot more clutch than normal because the cars hooked so well. My design and $4.50 gets you a cup of coffee. It boils down to without bigger cylinder heads ( we run Stevie Sanchez' units), more cubic inches ( say my 509 to Reichert's 355), PSI "C" blower and then a 150# more on the A-Fuelers, there "aint no way" we could make enough horse power to match what's going on today. Fred Mandolini knows already as he dynos all the big guys from all venues and sees who can do what with whom. He never tells on anyone, believe me, but he sees it for himself. And by the by, if they did give me 509 cu. in., will someone out there buy me new sleeves (30), new pistons (120) and pay my flow bill at Kinsler fuel injection? I feel we need NHRA to step up in October and tell the BAD guys what we can have next year. That way I can sell my stuff and go play golf, or crew for one of those awful, dangerous, front engine, deathtrap cars with the bodies on them. Larry Snyder won in Top Dragster and tried TAD blown style, but he let Mick drive and won three Div. 3 crowns with a funny. Six times I have had NHRA at the shop to certify, and then had to fabricate/weld/make something to get it certified that only they knew about. Remember the wing support tubes of
    .085 last year? Inspector had gotten the fax from NHRA two days before my cert. Was a real thrash making some up while I treated them to dinner. Until NHRA wakes up and does things right, we'll fight this arguement forever. And both sides will have it right. Just an opinion from a guy who does it out of his own pocket, without sponsors, and fixes outboards and sterndrives for a living. A real "rich" guy.
     
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  15. O.J.D.

    O.J.D. New Member

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    Well said...
     
    #55

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