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Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by M Tigges, Nov 22, 2004.
Sounds to me like ole Scooter "peeked" into NHRA's book of enhancements for his latest idea.
oops....double your pleasure, double your fun.....
i certainly hate to see this for the little guy, ihra was a great venue for them. i've said for a while that ihra should adopt nhra rules, and now's as good a time as any. i'm sure i'll take some heat but here's my reasons.
screw blower does not equal broken parts. it can, but so can a roots. if you're on a budget, you can run a screw blower motor fat 'n happy and not tear up parts, not have to pull the pan, on down the line. there's enough data out there on the 92 od fuel system to easily get a conservative tuneup that you can show up, keep it fat and run and not tear up parts. if you lean on it, rev it up, experiment etc, thats a decision thats made, not the screw blower. most budget roots tune-ups are exactly the same with a roots.
ok lets look at the flip side of that, the guy who wants to turn the wick up and run competitive. running it on the edge. the cost to run at the top is more porportional to the budgets of the teams at the top more than the blower on top of the intake. if manzo and payne were running ihra, i guarantee it would cost more to win a national event with them there because of their resources, they would push the edge harder because they can. nothing against atch and thomas, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm sure they don't quite have the resources manzo and payne have. what i'm getting at is people will probably compare what it costs to run at the top of ihra and what it costs to run at the top of nhra. it's more the budget of the teams at the top rather than the blower. so yes, it would cost more to win a championship on the nhra level. if manzo, payne, newb, bucky and others ran ihra, it would cost more to win an ihra championship as well.
one way to keep ihra cheaper if they did allow the screw is go back to 125%. but then you get away from the point of keeping continuity of rules.
ok back to the budget guys. now both series have the same rules. so the guy that's not chasing points, all of a sudden there's alot more races available to you. now you can pick up a few ihra races and a few nhra races, and cut down on travel. you could do that now, but the roots guys dont like running with screw guys, bc they dont have much of a chance. if you have a fat n' happy roots tune up that runs 6.0's now, it's entirely possible to run 5.80's fat n happy as well.
this would give both series a much needed boost in car counts. these things run on money, and the economy still hasn't returned to the pre 2000 high's we saw during the internet bubble. money being harder to come by probably has more to do with car counts going down than any rule. if you got the cash, and you wanna run fc, you'll take whatever rules you get. nomatter what the rules are, if the cash dries up, its hard to race.
as far as fan appeal, all to often these days the intellegence of the average fan gets cut short. it's the information age. waaay too many fans get lumped into the group of 'new' fans that "cant tell the difference" between fuel cars and alky cars. it's not the ihra racers fault, they run some bad ass numbers for having a roots up top. like it or not, the rules give the ihra fc class a big disadvantage. i think there are alot of fans out there that realize this class is a few tenths slower than their nhra counterparts. dont take this the wrong way. i've tuned a roots and didnt do worth a damn, so i can appreciate it when i see one of you go low .70s at over 240.
then there's the age old argument of blower cost. lets compare new to new. i think the latest new price is 9200. i think it was said on here the cost of a new kobelco superman is like 7500. you dont have to restrip that psi, so within a few runs, you're even, or have eaten up a good bit of the cost difference. on the flip side, you can pick up used psi's all day on this very site for as cheap as $5500-$6000. with the demise of the blown alcohol dragster, there's a lot of used ones on the market.
looking at the fc class as a whole, i think this is a step in the right direction. it will raise car counts except for maybe the first year while some teams switch. it creates more venues to race, and will add new competition at the top of both sanctioning bodies. thomas, atchison and others would definitely cause a rumble in nhra.
off of that note, an alternative venue for some of the lower buck teams that don't want to go ihra anymore, come run nhra div 2. you should be able to qualify pretty easy there. i think 3 races last year only had 2 cars.
WELL SAID WILL,THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT WITH THE SCREW TO RUN IT HARD COSTS WAY MORE THAN THE ROOTS, AND YOUR RIGHT ABOUT ATCH AND THOMAS THEY WOULD RUN WELL WITH NHRA.
OH AND NEWBERRY was running 80 flat in 1994 with a roots Randy ran 577 243 at pomona. theres no question that those guys would be going faster than US Atch and Thomas with roots today.
i forget the year, newb has went 5.69 with a roots...
I agree with will on letting the guys run screw blowers in ihra and have thought the same for many years . More places to race and race more often if it is in the budget . But this would also make the ihra cars not exclusive to running just their events but hey , they are only going to have maybe 10 cars show as it is with the new 8 car fields . I was at the udra banquet a couple of weeks ago and they voted to let the screw cars into their funny car events .
I changed from a roots to a screw and will never go back! I paid tom conway to setup the fuel system, and all we have done since is ajust the main. I talked to bader last year about letting the screw cars run ihra,but was told they had a lot of loyal roots cars that didn't want the screw cars in! so much for your loyalty!! do not have the answer but it ain't right!! I would run both series if the rules were the same.the problem is in nhra you can run div races,get your feet wet,and learn to get better.but in ihra all you have is national events. maybe new body designs,great paint schemes would help spectator appeal,glad to hear udra is letting in the screw cars-I'll be there!!
yea screw cars, roots cars, 8 cars 16 cars whatever. Ill pop wheelies all over the place!
HAL JA LIKA KICK
Ask Mark He can explain better than me
GET YOURSELF AN 8 CAR FIELD AND A DOUBLE THROW DOWN,ITS THE NEW TRICK DEAL!!
Roots or Screw blowers, A/FC's need universal rules or the class will slowly die IMO!
Scott Weis was the only one to really find any sucess with the combination when it was allowed by the IHRA. The outlawed the combination after one (or possibly more) pit explosions that sent crew members and spectators to the hospital. I dont remember if these were the only reasons but I know that was part of it.
I would do an injected funny car but would that really make the class more popular. And how could they possibly make it competative. The fact is that last time I was familiar with nitro, an injected car consumed over double the amount of fuel than a blown alcohol car. Now which fuel is more powerful. The power is in the fuel. I have an alcohol funny car and I love it very much. But Im going to say this anyway. A low budget funny car class that would really attract attention in IHRA would be injected nitro funny car with clutch management. Header flames and 5.10-.20 at 270+ mph and that would slip right in behind top fuel and not cost nearly as much money. Yell sream call me a jerk. but think about it from IHRA point of view. Obviously you can't cancel alcohol funny car and letting screws in is not the answer either. The fact is there is a lot of cars built to race ihra including mine. This whole think has been sucking for along time in both sanctioning bodies.
Yep that was me. We ran a AA\FA with 40% nitro and a steel Small Block Chevy. The car was called Altered States after the 1980's move. We ran a best of 6.79@ 209 MPH. Not to bad for a SBC and a PG in 1992 or 93.
PS we broke everything you could think of doing it. We made a diper before they said we needed one
Please bring back the 'A" Whipple. This way nobody in a funnycar could see where there going and I could sell mine to a dragster guy.
to Jlibbyafc142,question-why can't you let the screw cars in,it would certainly help ihra expand down south where the car count at san antonio was the worst-7 cars!there is not enough funnys cars out there now for both ihra-nhra .most people with roots cars say they can't afford to change,but if car counts continue to drop can you afford not to change? or make some happly middle ground on the rules so both types of cars are equal,that way we the racers can choose were we want to race without having to have two different conbinatins and parts to do it now?