75 ft says Minnesota!

Discussion in 'System One Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Just got word that Brandon Lewis' rig got shut down in Minneapolis by DOT.

    The first problem was no CDL. The point was argued about motorhome vs commercial, then the officer told him he was too long anyway. He had to have the trailer towed to the track. Reportedly, DOT will be waiting outside the track this weekend....

    Apparently it takes a special permit to be overlength in Minn..

    Sadly, this isn't the first story we've heard like this...
     
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  2. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Federal DOT has a "Motorsports Exemption" clause that allows any length for a "commercial" vehicle motorsports rig to travel to and from the race tracks on a preapproved access route (network).

    The problem is, you can't have it both ways...ie, motorhome registration and commercial motorsports length exemption.

    Saw it coming...

    RG
     
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  3. Crew

    Crew Volunteer

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    Been thinking about getting my CDL for our toterhome, but I don't want to take the test in it. Are there places to rent a day-cab type truck for the test?

    I'm thinking if I at least have a CDL when I get stopped, they'll go easier on me.
     
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  4. dlewis

    dlewis New Member

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    yea, first problem was probably no cdl, then they probably cited him for no log book and no d.o.t. medical card. after that they would most certainly start to look over his rig for any violations (big money fines). just remember if and when you get your cdl you will have to have a d.o.t. medical card and use a log book when ever you travel to a race, once you cross that line (getting a cdl) you will fall into a completely different class of people when it comes to being secrutinized by law enforcement officials. believe me when i say its getting worse and worse every day when it comes to the never ending nit-picking that the d.o.t. does to anyone they stop. if they think they can make a dollar off of you they will.
    david
     
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  5. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    If you run with no commercial registration and are a so-called motorhome but you have a CDL and a valid medical card, it's a good idea to keep a log book anyway. If they want to be nasty, since they feel you should know better having a CDL, they can park you for 24 hours for not having a log book since you have no documentation for how many hours you've driven even if they were inclined let you go for everything else. A log book may help your plea for leniency.

    I've given Manzo and several others the following from the California DOT to keep in your truck just in case you have to educate a peace officer who thinks you're too long (mine was 85.5 feet) about the Motorsports Exemption for length limit. Make sure you stay on or near the DOT network routes.

    http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/exempt/motorsports.htm

    Don't forget to have the M.S.D.S. form in your truck, plus a form you can make yourself with emergency contact phone number and MAXIMUM quantity of racing fuel in your rig (state more than you'll ever carry by a gallon or so because you never want to have more fuel than you claim). Click the link below if you are using any TORCO Racing fuels product, then click on the product down the center of the page you are carrying (alcohol, nitro, racing gas, etc.) and print a copy to keep in the truck. VP has similar forms on their web site.

    http://www.torcoracefuels.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.msds

    Good luck,

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  6. RichardH

    RichardH Member

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    Another crew guy

    Dont bet on it. If you have a cdl, most officers say you know better! It really depends on the disposition of the officer too. I have been driving for 21 years and get pulled over in my 4 wheeler and some officers see a cdl and they say oh, you know better. And have had a few that see a cdl and do take mercy on ya. But if DOT sees a out of state race car type rig chances are 50/50. Most DOT are preety cool , but just look out for that every once in a while!
     
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  7. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    why do i never read in the CLD posts anything about the 100 air mile radius non logging zone? as long as you don't drive over 12 hours a day and stay within the zone you don't have to log and you get a free day when you do violate either of these 2 rules. most racers stay within the 100 mile radius when racing locally. why would one log when they don't need to? MSDS are needed for more than racing gas - for instance white out in the small bottle is required to have MSDS. one should make a list of all known + possible unknown chemicals (liquid + gasous + solid) carried in their trailer. you would be surprised on how many items require MSDS. my point is a really sharp DOT or OSHA person could stop you dead in your tracks on MSDS without any problem on questioning whether you need a CLD or DVIR.
     
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  8. trucker

    trucker New Member

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    The 100 mile rule is from your home terminal.
     
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  9. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    correct - that starts from your "home" if you are an owner operator. they use the address from your driver's license when in question. when they audit your records or lack of them they have to have a base to begin from - the accpeted location to make the 100 mile radius when you are not dispatched from a terminal is the address supplied on your CDL license.
     
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  10. Gil Anderson

    Gil Anderson New Member

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    This begs the question if any racer with fuels, materials, oils, etc. need to have a msds log book along with the dot disclosures of hazzardous materials on the trailer.
     
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  11. blwnaway

    blwnaway Member

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    You are only required to log in a commercial vehicle, not a registered motor home or even a semi that is used for personal entertainment. And as far as the MSDS sheets go it depends on how much of something you are hauling. In other words if you have lets say 51 lbs of nitrous then you are required to have a hazardous materials endorsement on your license and have an MSDS sheet but if you have 49lbs then you are exempt from these rules.
     
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  12. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    If you have a Winnebago you might be right. If you have a toterhome or any other vehicle carrying your race stuff over the minimum DOT GVW you need to comply with all rules common to commercial carriers including insurance, bit inspections, log books (hours of operation), etc. You can take your chances and probably get away with registering your rig as a motorhome for a very long time, but more and more states are cracking down. The list is getting longer.

    Regarding reportable quantities and MSDS, CITGO gasoline reports "no reportable quantity has been established" by the DOT. What does that mean? It means even unleaded gas in any quantity could give you grief if the officer decided it was his turn to ruin your day. It means if you better be safe than sorry if you have a rig. It's a significant fine if your decision is to not carry a little piece of paper in a folder in your truck and they ask for it. And If you have a problem on the road (fire, leak, etc.) and the FD asks for the sheet, you can bet they'll be in no mood to hear your story about your personal use 55 gallon drum of fuel.

    See Citgo's disclosure here:

    http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/330961.pdf

    For those who don't know, MSDS sheets provide firefighters and emergency personel with a heads up on what they are dealing with in your trailer should you have a problem on the road. If your rig gets inspected and you have any significant quantity of racing fuel you are subject to a lot of headaches because minimum reporting requirement enforcements may vary from state to state or officer to officer. Using the "It's my motorhome" argument won't work too well especially when the officer sees you have 55 gallons of VP racing fuel in non DOT approved containers.

    I'd sure like to see the source for the information you gave. Especially the part about not needing a log book for "a semi that is used for personal entertainment." DOT set up an inspection on the 15 Freeway from L.A. to Las Vegas last year when the NHRA was in town. Anyone in anything larger than a U-Haul was chased down and ticketed for bypassing the inspection and then escorted back to the inspection for even more fun. I wonder what they would say to the guy with the Columbia Freightliner towing a 53 foot "personal entertainment" semi trailer when says doesn't need no stinking log book. LOL

    RG
     
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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2006
  13. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    the CLD vs no CLD thread is like an urban legend - it grows every time someone talks about it. but the fact remains certain states have figured out that there is a revenue source on the controversary. states like Texas, California and Wisconsin are willing to give tickets for no CLDS on the 40' motorhome pulling a 30' trailer with your racecar. the sharper states go after the over length combinations. most states have a restriction the same as a single screw tractor and a set of 28' doubles - somewhere around 67' to 76'. go over this length and they have a legal way to fine and deadline you until corrected. the point about MSDS is that most racers don't know about this area and some items as small as a bottle of white out are classified as a hazardous material requiring MSDS. as far as requiring a hazardous material CDL endorsement - the DOT specifies the requirements for plackarding on your trailer - this is driven by the type and amounts of the chemical you are carrying. there is a difference between a hazardous materials CDL endorsement requirement and an OSHA MSDS requirement. no different than these misguided rules are the interpretation of said questionable CDL vs no CDL rules for motorhomes.
     
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  14. HEMIdude

    HEMIdude New Member

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    So what is the max. length for a registered RVand trailer with no CDL? My friend just received his CDL and the president of the driving school (now mandatory to get a CDL in Ohio), who's also a sprint car crewmemeber, told him NO CDL is required for a registered RV/trailer combo regardless of weight as long as "Registered RV Not for Hire" is clearly marked on the rv/tractor. He says the first thing troopers look for is DOT numbers or Registered RV Not For Hire. He also said sponsorship lettering IS allowed on trailers but with it you can expect to be stopped (hassled) more often.
     
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  15. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    the total length is determined by the state you are in - even on federal interstate or federal highways. a good US state atlas will normally tell each states motorhome/trailer length requirements. i have carried a CDL/class A for over 30 years. i have seen the rules change dramatically in the 80's due to the changing of the laws to pull doubles. one way to determine what your licensing state requires is to take the motorhome + trailer to the licensing location when you either renew or 1st get a road test. that will send you a signal what your licensing state requires. i did this on my last CDL relicensing and they didn't want to do the road test in the equipment. the road testers determined (after talking with the state patrol) that a CDL was not required for this application. i had a chance to t/w the patrol officer and he said this state (as most) were not prepared to have enforcement of motorhomes in the scales. he went on to tell me that regular CDL truck/trailer enforcement is difficult enough without "grandpaws + grandmas" getting stuck in the scales. it is just a matter of time before all states realize the revenue potential of CDLS and require them. the mid 80's licensing for doubles was difficult enough for the licensing folks - that is one good reason we see the states that took on doubles (mainly in the south) not taking on the motorhome/trailer question. the older state locations that already had doubles appear to be the ones that today enforce the CDLs in their state. the best answer is to have the CDL and be prepared to show proof of it, medical certificate, DVIR and appropriate MSDSs. the idea that you can evade the scales with the "motorhome not for hire" is a keyword that attracts the attention you are trying to avoid. as for not having MSDS - you are taking a chance for disaster - several years ago a road racing team lost everything due to trailer fire when they could not produce any MSDS documentation - the fire department let it burn to the ground on a major interstate. i have seen several novel ways to avoid MSDS - some NASCAR teams convert one diesel fuel tank to hold their racing gas - thus none in the trailer, no MSDS or plackarding required. it only goes to show the problems with the law. you can have gas in the tractors tank and not need MSDS or plackarding but put it in the trailer in either a container or the racecar and rules appear. another good example of this mentality is the FAA - a spare aircraft tire full of nitrogen in the belly of an aircraft is considered haz mat yet is rides next to the landing gear (same tires) of the aircraft.one is considered haz mat the other is not. a good motorhome/trailer driver is an educated driver - its like buyer beware or insurance - if you don't have a CDL and the other regulated stuff its only a matter of time you will need it. would you rather sit in the scales deadlined or go racing? would you rather save your burning trailer or get the fire department to put it out? its all about choices - you should ask yourself what risk are you willing to take?
     
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  16. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    The CHP told me signs like "Private Coach" "Motorhome, Not For Hire" "Non Commercial RV" and the like really mean "Pull me over, I'm improperly registered."

    All of these commercial enforcement laws are based on Federal DOT. Kansas is one of the lastest states to join the bandwagon, and the south is getting in on the fun, too. New Mexico busted one of the leading AFD teams a short time ago. The fine was big enough for him to decide to change rigs. Arizona will cheerfully hold you and Oregon will give you a $250.00 ticket just because you forgot to call ahead of time announcing your visit to their wondeful state (we got one).

    One of my racing buddies whom we all know very well told me a story about a racer with a toterhome pleading his motorhome theory to a peace officer out in the middle of nowhere. The officer asked the driver to accompany him to the front of the truck where he pointed to the emblem on the top of the radiator chrome grill. He said "What does that say?" Answer..."Freightliner."

    Last year when we had TORCO Racing Fuels all over the trailer we were pulled over on the 5 in the central valley of California. The officer wanted to know where our hazmat placcards were. After explaining it was a sponsorship for a race car and not fuel delivery trailer he was Ok with it. We produced log books and everything else, but he never opened the log books up.

    When I came back from Chicago last year I was stopped at the agricultural checkpoint on I-40 going into California. The lady asked what we had in the trailer so I told her. Then she wanted to know if I could give her some hats and t-shirts. I made the mistake of telling her I didn't have any in the cab. She politely asked me to pull in behind the other "big truck" and wait. An individual walked up and informed me that I was in line for an inspection and he was there to check my IFTA paperwork, which I fortunately had in good order. The "big truck" in front of me had two officers in coveralls searching every nook and cranny, and I just wanted to get outta there. The IFTA dude then said, "Did she ask you for t-shirts or hats?" "Yes", I said. "Oh! That's why she sent you over here."

    Now keep in mind I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I opened up the trailer and handed out a dozen hats and t-shirts and suddenly was sent merrily on my way. Can you say...EXTORTION?

    I was in my Columbia Freightliner toterhome towing a T&E race car trailer. And I had DOT and CA numbers on it along with IFTA.

    RG
     
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  17. eli

    eli Banned

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    Hey Randy, how would you like to be going over to Canada with a open trailer with a AA/FA on it and its name was SMOKING, with an indian on a horse with a 747 size joint in his mouth, painted on the side, talk about checking every nook and cranny, Ouch, Ahhhhhhh those were the days, if i had to do it over i woulden`t change a thing. :D
     
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  18. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    ok, I'll ask- what is IFTA paperwork?
     
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  19. lowcountry71

    lowcountry71 New Member

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    the IFTA sticker is for an inspection done yearly. it certifies that the tractor or trailer has passed a yearly inspection - mostly safety items. is has to be done by a certified inspector. i believe most of the items are the same ones a driver should check on his Daily Vehicle Inspection Report but the inspection is supposed to be more thorough. the sticker is normally placed on the cab of the tractor somewhere near the drivers window and on the nose of the trailer near the glad hands. i could telll you stories about bootleg/counterfit IFTA stickers that would make you scared about the creditibility of this process. the weight watchers know this and that is another reason when the choose to - the inspections can be very detailed.
     
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  20. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    LowCountry:

    Hmmm. Don't know where that came from.

    IFTA (International Fuel Tax) is an annual program set up for states who wish to participate in collecting fuel taxes from drivers who chose to keep on trucking by allowing the trucker to register annually with the IFTA program. Monthly sheets are submitted and calculations are done to split the fuel taxes to the states where you claim mileage. As you enter and exit each state, you write the mileage from the trucks odometer on the log sheet. You submit it along with copies of your fuel receipts.

    It has nothing to do with inspecting your rig.

    RG
     
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