6.00 sec minimum dial-in T/D class, NHRA style

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by Charles Stewart, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. Charles Stewart

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's now clear, that 6,00 second dial-in is the minimum in the T/D class, as per NHRA rule amendments February 8th 2010, section4D, Top Dragster, 4,17 page 7 in the document. :mad:
    Charles Stewart
     
    #1
  2. Don Onimus

    Don Onimus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    T/d 6.0

    Yea, sucks doesn't it. Goes right along with the on board starter, battery thing. Don Love spending my money and have to slow it down. Don
     
    #2
  3. Gearhead47

    Gearhead47 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    I kind of like the amendment. I have always thought that a TAD and a T/D were two different beast. Considering running our A/ED single carbed big block Dodge powered car capable of mid to high 6 second runs in T/D, it seemed a little odd to me to see us pulling up beside a near full tilt TAD. I would think pulling up beside the TAD would be more appropriate for our A/FD.

    The bottom line is what we all look for is a good competitive race and consitency is what is going to win. A 6.00 to 7.70 is still a pretty wide class margin. I would also think a large part of the NHRA decision revolves around tech and safety. This is the NHRA is also looking at the consistency in the style of car and chassis from the technical side of the equation. The most common cars in the class are using an Advanced ET chassis that is certified legal to 6.00. Anything quicker than this throws the tech personel and car owner/driver into an entirely different tech specifications for chassis and safety gear.

    Just my thoughts.
     
    #3
  4. Charles Stewart

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, Gearhead 47,
    I respect yours comments but don't agree with all of it.
    From my side, why NHRA would allowed an almost legal T/AD in T/D with all the bells and whistles on one side and limit it with a minimum e.t. on the other side.
    Running T/D need a lot of consistency and that exactly where the "thrill" is when you compete with "and almost legal T/AD.
    Just my point of view,
    Take care,
    Charles Stewart
     
    #4
  5. pete9857

    pete9857 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    7
    I believe the majority of the 5 sec. Top Dragsters are certified to run that fast. Our chassis will pass T/F specs. Plus, there is a big diff. between running 5.80 and 5.30 Tad. Money and time and people to work on it constantly. Just my opinion.

    Glenn
     
    #5
  6. BLOWN INCOME

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Glenn !
    Same chassis sfi tag for t/d and t/ad (5.99 and quicker)...

    Can't afford to lose all my retirement money to try and go 5.30 ,
    or like most out there ,buy a ride and tuner...
    I'll go 5.80 heads-up, q-8, and have fun doing it......
    No $300 entry to help pay for the pro classes...
    By the way did you see how empty the stands were at the first two nhra races ????
     
    #6
  7. Don Onimus

    Don Onimus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    6.0

    Thank you guys, I had a hard time last night keeping my finger off the keys. I have been racing for almost 45 years. Remember what drag racing was all about. Let me remind you, GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN EVERY RUN, and have to really drive the car and not have electronics drive the car for you. When you had to think about a problem and figure it out yourself. If you can't afford to run fast, don't rely on NHRA . Stay at that bracket race. I feel very strong about that, so I really don't care what someone with a 7 sec. car really thinks. Don
     
    #7
  8. Fuel Cars

    Fuel Cars AA/AM

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    2
    So I guess someone who runs quicker than you doesn't care what you think either. That's the reason for different classes, to run as fast as you can WITHIN YOUR BUDGET!

    Btw, NHRA's version of TD is based on the brackets so if your running in TD, guess what, you're already running in the brackets!

    If you can't handle that then either step up to TAD, go IHRA or find something else to do with your money, just don't ruin TD by making it another cubic-money class.
     
    #8
  9. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's 100% a safety issue....some of the track and even the cars have no business hosting or competing in a sub 6 second range. You don't have to run 5.30's to run alky....true it helps and you might win more....but not like anyone is winning T/D running 6.00 or quicker. If you ran TAD you'd at least give yourself a platform to succeed on....you're still paying the same entry fees, and it seems you're treated worse than the alky guys (hard to believe). All the safety equipment is designed for exactly that, many of the fast T/D guys could run TAD if they'd change a few things. If you're going for qualifying passes and being a duck for 1st round....why not run a class where you can run all out....heck maybe get lucky and win a round.

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #44
     
    #9
  10. pete9857

    pete9857 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    7
    A platform to suceed on? My son has put many so called hitters on the trailer at IHRA nat. events with our Hemi bracket racing. Brandon, why don't you try to race TAD out of (your ) pocket with a driver and one other person to work on car. Now, send me 200,000 dollars and I'll race TAD. What I'm saying is, going 5.80 isn't that much greater then 6.00. NHRA races TAD at the tracks so why not let T/D go 5.80's?

    Glenn
     
    #10
  11. Don Onimus

    Don Onimus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    6.0

    It's too late in a couple years it is already there. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, with the amount of blown T/D being built. Don
     
    #11
  12. pete9857

    pete9857 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    7
    I here ya, we race Q8 now.
     
    #12
  13. Ron C

    Ron C Jr. Dragster

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't run T/D. But it seems that most of the winners in that class run in the middle or upper range. Going faster in that class just makes it harder to win. Now I can certainly understand wanting to go faster. For us older racers that was always the intent of the sport. The newer generation seems to race by a different desire.
    We run in the "Top Eliminator West" program which is an outlaw class where cars that don't really fit in NHRA's programs can go out and have fun.

    We do run on a 6.30 index, but....in the final round if both cars agree, the index is lifted and they can go for it flat out if they wish. But both have to agree.

    We do include funny cars, altereds, dragsters and pro mods in the program with side by side racing and the spectators love to see a dragster running off against a funny car.

    Where just trying to put some fun back into racing.

    Blessings..........Ron Clevenger
    Creekside Racing Ministry
    2008 TEW Champions
     
    #13
  14. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glenn,
    1. NHRA has their rules and that's the way it is.

    2. We do race out of our own pockets

    3. We're lucky if we have two other guys aside from my dad and I. We also build all our own stuff and tune it

    4. Very few...certainly not us....alky racers have a $200k/yr. budget...please alert us where they are so I can try and get some sponsorship.

    5. I never said "you" couldn't win rounds, I said speaking in generalities that 6.0 and quicker cars don't win bracket races. The same as someone stated they can't run 5.30's....it doesn't take a .30 to qualify in TAD....maybe at one race (I believe Joliet 2 yrs ago). Platform to succeed on isn't saying your car specifically can't win...it's just stating the fact that 9/10 I'll take the 6.65 dragster to win.

    6. Many people have tried to give the fast T/D guys a place to race; Ron Bales & Phil Esz namely....bottom line is it's impossible to fund the necessary purse, be able to pull enough cars, and keep the track happy all at once; that is why these groups have folded. NHRA didn't even have T/D that long ago...now it's coup d'├ętat because they don't want to model their show around a half dozen guys who want to run faster than 6.0. It's more than just the chassis tag to run that quick (wing struts, pour in seat, 6.75 gal. puke tank, wing tether, Leahy box, blower bag, engine containment system, titanium bell (steel is allowed)). We as much as anyone enjoyed the go fast outlaw days...sadly it appears those are dead n' gone. In my mind allowing 14-71's was the biggest mistake, there was never a problem back then. In perfect conditions someone might run a 5.99, but it sure took a long time to happen. This was supposedly to save money, since used 14's were cheaper than custom/new 8's. Why is it so many guys have the same blowers that the big dollar pro mod teams have? I'm not saying it's wrong...a man can spend his money on whatever he wants....but there are limitations per the class rules in regards to e.t..

    Brandon Booher
    NHRA TAD #44
     
    #14
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  15. AFC357

    AFC357 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    0
    Those ole' Outlaw Days were fun! Remember the Run watch ya Brung Q-8's at Bunker Hill, pour 15% "Pop" in the tank and have fun!
     
    #15
  16. pete9857

    pete9857 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    7
    It has nothing to do with PTO, or un-safe tracks, we're talking ET limitations. If a TAD can run 5.50's at a particular track, why can't a T/D guy run 5.80's with the appropriate safety gear? It's not ET that makes it dangerous, it's 260 mph plus! I'm not going to a race hoping someone breaks or does'nt show up so I can qualify and race TAD eliminations and get treated like crap! Just my opinion on my racing side of it. And since it's my money, that's how I'm going to race, period.
     
    #16
  17. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    10
    Sorry Brandon, I have to agree with ole' Glenn on this one, the Et limit is BS. It's not the et that hurts in a wreck, it's the mph. Now Eddie runs 6.00's at 238 mph insted of 5.80's at 238 mph. Don't know what my junk will run but I hope it's quick and fast. Eddie runnered up at an IHRA nat. year before last dialing in a 5.80 something so it can be done, the reason a mid 6 sec TD wins more races is because out of 32 cars (48 before) only 5 or 6 are really fast (below 6.30 sec. ) reverse the field to 26 blower cars and Mike Kyle's bad azz NOS car (6.0s) and 6 mid 6 sec. TD's and see how the outcome will change. There is a place for everyone now, TAD for racers that want to run heads up and let the biggest pocket book / best racer/ tuneup or luck win, TD for racers that want to go as fast as they can but let the dail-in deal take most of the money deal out of the picture ( I know as we get faster fields it costs more but thats TD) and supercomp/ quickrod for racers that just want to compete and not work on their cars all the time or don't want a door car. From what I hear the fans loved the fast TD's at the first IHRA race of the year.
     
    #17
  18. underby6

    underby6 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    0
    One could always call Cali and ask them...

    Brandon
     
    #18
  19. Gearhead47

    Gearhead47 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glenn, Blown, Don,

    I sure was not trying to piss anybody off as really we are all more or less in the same boat. The reason I have considered T/D for our A/ED is the Comp index for a single four barrel on gasoline A/ED is 7.20 with and the record is a 6.61 at 204.77. With needing to be able to run in excess of .5 under to be competitive with a 450" engine, it is probably just as expensive a feat for me as you running 5.30's with your 5.80 car. Bottom line, it is sometimes difficult to run the class we want to run. I guess that is competition and free market.

    I like the days of run what you brung too. That is why I like the heads up classes such as TAD. If a guy is a good driver and can run consistently, he has a pretty good chance of doing well.

    My deal in Comp is.... I am going back to the flow bench with my heads, several sets of valves and the ole grinder and see if I can increase the area in the flow curve. If not, then I am looking at T/D. Now once I am in T/D we will have to continue to run the crap out of our car/engine to qualify well. On your side it should be a little easier as all you will need to do is back off a few teeth on the pulley and pull some fuel out of her and possibly add a little timing. She will be as crisp as ever and on a bad air day all you will have to do is step on her a little more. Looks like T/D would be good to you financially as well as you would not have to run your parts near as hard.

    Just some thoughts:) I'm sure we will all live through this transistion. Good Luck to all.
    Gearhead
     
    #19
  20. Don Onimus

    Don Onimus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    6.0

    You kind of hit it on the head. But good luck on that Comp thing. I am getting to old to start learning how to run comp. It is a class of it's own. Besides, I like big motors. I just started this reply to get some people fired up. It is boring with all the snow . Good luck to all. Come see us in Div 1. Don
     
    #20

Share This Page