First Blown Alcohol Engine

I am currently working on a front engine dragster, my first purpose built race car. It is 180 inch wb. My plans are for 12" to 14" wide by 32" or 33" tall slicks with 4.11 or 4.56 gears, transmission will be a powerglide.

I would like some oppinions on an engine. requirements .... small block Chevy,blown on alcohol,Enderle hat ( BUG or BIRD? ).

I would like to go mid to low 8's 150-160for starters, I think at this et and speed an engine will be reliable with moderate maint.

What would you recommend.

Frank

 

You wont need much motor to run low 8s but I would still build it tough so when you want more (and you will) you wont have to worry about your parts.

A bug is just right and plenty of air for what you are doing. As far as the motor goes, build what you want/like and the blower will take care of the rest, dont worry about cubic inches for what you are doing. I would build around off the shelf parts you can find, just make sure they will take the abuse before you buy.

We just put together a 3.5" stroke 4.165 bore SBC with a 6-71 at 10% over for our FED last year and its in the low 7s with a mile of tuning window left.

 

You probably already know this. Dart block, top shelf forged crank, aluminum rods, front crank support, MSD 12 minimum and decent heads. None of the oem stuff will survive long enough for you to get a good handle on it. And yes, you will likely be quicker than you expect in short order.

Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

 

What are you thinking of building for a motor? Block, crank, pistons, rods, heads, valvetrain?? Are you starting from scratch or do you have some parts?

 

Frank,

Your gear may be to short. The car will leave hard, (it may rattle the tires), and rev the motor way fast. The motor wil be at 8500 waiting for a shift by the time you get your hand from the wheel to the shifter....and the front wheels will still be in the air as the car shifts, so it will be a handfull (out of shape potentially) as you get your first crack at steering.

I ran a 188" with an injected 327...8.60's easy. Went up to a Blown 350 and began have to change some things. It worked out! We ran 7.60's in NE1 all day long and finished in the top 5 back in the day when there were 40+ cars at every meet.

350 bowtie block
Brodix track 1 heads
Hat nozzles only
27 degrees timing...any more and the car started going too fast (sub 7.50)
msd12
enderle 80A
Bird Catcher
Power glide 1.76 first
3.90 rearend
1580lbs at the starting line.

...and all the stuff Dave Koehler talks about.

The key for us...we ran a 3700 stall converter, and had old drag master wheels that were 9.5 wide, with a 12"' tall growth, (with tubes). The tire growth was like 3rd gear! The stall is relavent...because I never got up on the converter. I would bring the rpm to about 2500 and then release the brake at the hit...the converter was hit a little slower and didnt shock the tire. Kind of like a clutch. It was very consistent and easy to drive. The 60' got much better too, as it would stay up on the tire!


Little blower motors love lots of fuel at the hit, We ran it rich, and made the motor work hard through the whole pass, not reving! Reving hurts parts! 15 to 17 lbs of boost. I had the car set up to run a 1.18ish 60'. Not exciting but CRAZY consistenet. Shifted at 7500 rpm. and then the tire started growing!!! 7400 rpm through the traps at 189-194 mph!!! every pass.

You should see the look on the guys faces when their hemi cars were way out in front and they back off a little and the little small block goes by at the line 20 mph faster. Hard to sand bag against that.

We ran good maintenance, and never hurt a single thing, in 3 seasons. Actually 1 inner valve spring, once. Low boost, and lower revs...we would get a whole season on bearings. Change srings about every 30 passes. We would watch them go away, by checking them every 2 passes.

Ronnie Lennon (bato trucking crosley)
Don Taros 3 time champ
Antony Valencia - Theisen F/C CrewChief

Were all there. Try and track them down...they have lots of good ideas too.

P.s. Unless you lift at 900 ft...good luck staying in the 8's !!!! Have fun!

 

I am starting from scratch.The only part I'm pretty sure I'm using is a set of dart heads a racer friend has for sale. I don't know the part/castng number but I know they are 23 deg, 2.08 intake and 1.6 exaust valve with 215 cc intake runners.

As far as parts I'm not sure of this is what I was thinking. Keep in mind I have neverhad a blower engine built.

Dart Little M block 4.125 bore ,std deck height,,std cam,350 mains.
Crank, Eagle?, Callies?. 3.750 stroke for 400 cu in
Rods Eagle?. can someone detail the pros and cons of steel vs aluminium rods
Pistons JE or high qulity forged from??
Cam, roller but as far as specs???????
ZOOMIES!
8-71 standard helix from BDS or The Blower Shop.
Enderle Bug Catcher with Enderle pump(size unknown)

For ignition I have a MSD Pro Billit dist and an Msd 7al2 I will use this if it is suitable.

I will also note here that my chassis has a radiator (Scirocco) . I was originaly going to run natural aspirated gas with a carb.

Frank

 

Those heads will work fine, they are small for a big HP motor but you are far from that.

Good block choice but, a std cam hight block will have cam/rod clearance issues with a 3.75 stroke and aluminium rods, maybe even some steel rods. Something to plan for.

I like aluminium rods but many people run steel, either way you go they need to be a quality rod. Same with pistons, whichever brand you go with, you need a piston designed for a boosted motor. I tried to run NA pistons, cracked 4 of them in 5 passes.

Cam it like you would any other motor, they do like more lobe seperation though.

Of coarse, ZOOMIES! Its gotta have zoomies.

An 8-71 is big for what you are doing, I would stay with a 6. Im not saying you cant run an 8, but you will be turning it pretty slow to get it calmed down.

Unless you have experiance with mechanical fuel injection I would say get your fuel system done by someone. I setup both of our blower motors with good success but I ran injected alcohol for quite a while before we switched to blower motors.

 

The 7 box will work ...up to a point. Someday you will switch to a mag and be kicking yourself wondering what took you so long. I know the advertised numbers don't add up but the mag works better with alky.
Dave Koehler
http://www.koehlerinjection.com

Personally, I would lose the distributor, the box, the radiator, the water pump and the battery.

 

I could see keeping the radiator if you are making many passes in a short time but otherwise you dont need it.

In our FED the trans needs more cooldown time than the motor (dry). If we go a few rounds in a hurry we have to put fans on the trans.

Dave is 100% right on the mag, we run weak little vertex's and have had great luck with them. Simple and old technology but they never seem to miss a beat.

 

You will run enough fuel through the motor, it will stay cool enough like the guys say. Be a little aware...the exhaust vavle stems/guides get hot, while the heads will seem ice cold. We ran an little more clearance on the exhaust guides.

Run the block dry...if you use a a dart or bowtie block, you shouldn't have to fill it, and then you can always sell it some day, or use in something other than you dragster.

 

I have run a blown sbc in my FED for 10 years. My current combo is the combo I would build if I was going to start over from scratch other then my cylinder heads. 4.125 x 3.625 I run GRP alluminum rods as I am scared of steel rods in the 1500+HP range. My old combo was a 4.00 bore 3.48 stroke standard 350 5.7 rods 11.4-1 compression 288-292 duration@.050 .750 lift brodix -11 Littlelfield 6-71 14%OD in a 1600lb FED w/driver 7.20's very safely 5 years only changing bearings once. Rings were changed every year typically 40 passes a year.

 

Yes to the extra guide clearance, we dont run valve seals either, makes it smoke a bit at the hit but you need the extra lube IMO.