spray bar

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by bill, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. bill

    bill Member

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    any body using a spray bar in there hat to atomise the fuel
     
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  2. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    I believe the main purpose of the spray bar is to cool in the incoming air, atomization is secondary. Mike Janis of Jan-Cen Motorsports can install one in your hat.
     
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  3. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Call Mike at Rage fuel systems. 843-623-3500. He has done dozens , I have one in both of my injector hats. He and Don Jackson pioneered these things.
     
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  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    As Mike said, it's more for cooling the intake charge. Anything that is atomized returns to liquid/droplet state when it hits something solid.
     
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  5. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

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    About when did Rage/Don Jackson start doing this?
     
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  6. bill

    bill Member

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    does it make much more power
     
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  7. youngtuner

    youngtuner Member

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    Been told that with a roots blower on the dyno its worth atleast 50hp on a pro mod combo.
     
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  8. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    50hp? Who's dyno? I understand the theory behind it. Mech injection is so crude. I remember talking with Steve petty and he was telling me how crude it was on turbo motors and when they just bolted efi it picked up 200 hp and he didn't have a clue what he was doing. So I'm thinking anything that acts like a efi component and puts in a fine mist versus crude drops had to be better.
     
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  9. bill

    bill Member

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    did you see much difference how much is it
     
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  10. aj481x

    aj481x Member

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    but, just like the rest of the jets, etc. the flow has to be right.
     
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  11. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    As said you have to retune it to get the extra power. Cooling the incoming air is the same as lowering the DA and you need more fuel. If you can burn more fuel then you are going to make more power. More power will show in the final mph. If you are regarding the ignition for traction right now then you probably will not see much change in ET
     
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  12. DMPE

    DMPE Member

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    it is worth 60 hp at 5000 rpm and tapers to no increase by 8000. The guy to talk to is Donnie Bender Donnie the guy you want to talk to if you have interest in the spray bar. 13174394947 The dyno testing of DJE nozzles / spray bars was done at dmpe. Rage stepped up Don's game by making Stainless bars as the original aluminum bars failed (i have a junk blower to testify). The reason the increase of power reduces with rpm is time. Latent diffusion of heat is the explanation of the decrease in intake temperature. However as the motor speeds up airspeed increases. Therefor the amount of time the nozzle has to reduce temperature goes down and so does the benefit. These nozzles worked great in the Bob Dalton Streamliner as it never sees rpm on its 5 mile journey. In the window we were working with Don hit a home run with his nozzle design. I believe the design will be improved upon as Don Jackson puts more time into the project.
     
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  13. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    We saw 80 hp on Rage's dyno. And we're able to jet to motor a lot richer than without the spray bar. We definitely are able to burn more fuel. And as Mike said.... Burn more fuel.....make more power.
     
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  14. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    Great explainaton Darren. So basically since most engines operate between 7000-11,000 rpm window this doesn't do enough to justify itself in a typical race engine application , sounds like something else to fall into the rotors of my billet blower.
     
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  15. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Suits me if no one else runs them.... I'd rather my competition not. I'm sure Other racers that run them think the same way
     
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  16. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Were the nozzles all pointing down toward the rotors from above, or up into the incoming air, or some combination of both? You hit the nail on the head about the exposure/residence time being critical.
     
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  17. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    They are placed , all 26 of them in my case, right behind the hat blades pointing to the rear of the hat. They turn the fuel into a vapor
     
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  18. jody stroud

    jody stroud ZOMBIE Top Dragster

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    Ask 2016 PDRA pro extreme world champion what he thinks of the spray bar in his hat...... Mike Janis also runs a spray bar setup in his billet hat. If you are gonna put fuel up top to lube the rotors and help seal them to the case you may as well use it to cool the intake charge more than plain nozzles do. Do you have to have it to have a fast car.... No.... But it does help, and you can put more fuel in the motor with them than with regular nozzles and get it to light.
     
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  19. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    This is a very interesting thread , thanks.
     
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  20. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Great explanation Darren.

    At first thought in regards to "time" to cool...simple response would be distance. Many cars are limited to what can be done with injector design.

    I also wonder what affect rotor/tip speed has on it. Surely the velocity of a screw blower at 92-128 over is much higher than a roots at 14-30 over
     
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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016

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