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Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by bill, Dec 26, 2016.
any body using a spray bar in there hat to atomise the fuel
I believe the main purpose of the spray bar is to cool in the incoming air, atomization is secondary. Mike Janis of Jan-Cen Motorsports can install one in your hat.
Call Mike at Rage fuel systems. 843-623-3500. He has done dozens , I have one in both of my injector hats. He and Don Jackson pioneered these things.
As Mike said, it's more for cooling the intake charge. Anything that is atomized returns to liquid/droplet state when it hits something solid.
About when did Rage/Don Jackson start doing this?
does it make much more power
Been told that with a roots blower on the dyno its worth atleast 50hp on a pro mod combo.
50hp? Who's dyno? I understand the theory behind it. Mech injection is so crude. I remember talking with Steve petty and he was telling me how crude it was on turbo motors and when they just bolted efi it picked up 200 hp and he didn't have a clue what he was doing. So I'm thinking anything that acts like a efi component and puts in a fine mist versus crude drops had to be better.
did you see much difference how much is it
but, just like the rest of the jets, etc. the flow has to be right.
As said you have to retune it to get the extra power. Cooling the incoming air is the same as lowering the DA and you need more fuel. If you can burn more fuel then you are going to make more power. More power will show in the final mph. If you are regarding the ignition for traction right now then you probably will not see much change in ET
it is worth 60 hp at 5000 rpm and tapers to no increase by 8000. The guy to talk to is Donnie Bender Donnie the guy you want to talk to if you have interest in the spray bar. 13174394947 The dyno testing of DJE nozzles / spray bars was done at dmpe. Rage stepped up Don's game by making Stainless bars as the original aluminum bars failed (i have a junk blower to testify). The reason the increase of power reduces with rpm is time. Latent diffusion of heat is the explanation of the decrease in intake temperature. However as the motor speeds up airspeed increases. Therefor the amount of time the nozzle has to reduce temperature goes down and so does the benefit. These nozzles worked great in the Bob Dalton Streamliner as it never sees rpm on its 5 mile journey. In the window we were working with Don hit a home run with his nozzle design. I believe the design will be improved upon as Don Jackson puts more time into the project.
We saw 80 hp on Rage's dyno. And we're able to jet to motor a lot richer than without the spray bar. We definitely are able to burn more fuel. And as Mike said.... Burn more fuel.....make more power.
Great explainaton Darren. So basically since most engines operate between 7000-11,000 rpm window this doesn't do enough to justify itself in a typical race engine application , sounds like something else to fall into the rotors of my billet blower.
Suits me if no one else runs them.... I'd rather my competition not. I'm sure Other racers that run them think the same way
Were the nozzles all pointing down toward the rotors from above, or up into the incoming air, or some combination of both? You hit the nail on the head about the exposure/residence time being critical.
They are placed , all 26 of them in my case, right behind the hat blades pointing to the rear of the hat. They turn the fuel into a vapor
Ask 2016 PDRA pro extreme world champion what he thinks of the spray bar in his hat...... Mike Janis also runs a spray bar setup in his billet hat. If you are gonna put fuel up top to lube the rotors and help seal them to the case you may as well use it to cool the intake charge more than plain nozzles do. Do you have to have it to have a fast car.... No.... But it does help, and you can put more fuel in the motor with them than with regular nozzles and get it to light.
This is a very interesting thread , thanks.
Great explanation Darren.
At first thought in regards to "time" to cool...simple response would be distance. Many cars are limited to what can be done with injector design.
I also wonder what affect rotor/tip speed has on it. Surely the velocity of a screw blower at 92-128 over is much higher than a roots at 14-30 over