Pro Comp anyone?

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Mar 4, 2005.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Did NHRA make the right move when they seperated dragsters and funny cars into TAD/TAFC? Two, how in the hell would you combine the two again, if you even could. Just for grins, lets take a look at what it would take, and the pro's/con's of such a move.

    Right now I know some of you are asking yourself, what in the hell is he thinking. They have a hard enough time with A/F and blown, much less throw Funny Cars into the mix. I'm sure the NHRA tech committee is getting a little too much sleep these days and could use another headache... :D

    Why? Bring back fan appeal. Funny Cars vs. Dragsters in real competition. Full fields of quality cars. More fan appeal leads to great things like sponsors, money from sponsors, better treatment, and theoretically, with one class, a pay raise in payout. Lets face it we're in the entertainment business, not racing business.

    I'm sure there's a few racers out there that just like running their car, have enough money they don't want a sponsor, and could care less how many fans there are in the stands. Obviously those that don't want or need sponsor dollars are a minority. Combining the classes and running a 16 car field would make it harder for the smaller teams. But if it's easier to get a sponsor due to more fan appeal, then it's easier for smaller teams to get the sponsorship it takes to run at a higher level.

    Second, how the hell do you get there? How do you make the classes even? Here's a shot in the dark:

    Shooting for low 5.40's being the performance threshold. Slow the dragsters down a tenth, speed the funny cars up a tenth.
    Blown Alcohol Dragster: Minimum weight 2100 lbs (75 lbs) 2 speed only transmission. As we learned with the funny cars a few years ago, lowering O/D is baaaaad.
    A/Fuel Dragster: 96% Nitro
    Blown Alcohol Funny Car: D blower 125 OD
    A/Fuel Funny Car: 98% Nitro
    Altereds: ??? Instead of A/F or Blown Altereds, bring 'fuel' altereds into the mix. Maybe either a 6-71 or 8-71, single mag, with 85% Nitro. Maybe a roots only, lower weight, more cubes class to give IHRA cars an 'in.' Maybe leave them out altogether and just focus on the above four categories.

    The definite downside to this everyone accross the board has to make changes. The blown dragsters have to add weight and go to two speed trans. I'm pretty sure you can get 1.56 gear sets from both manufacturers of transmissions, which is close to what many teams are running. The A/Fuelers would have to take another cut in Nitro, but they won't be the only cars slowing down. Force ran a .50 in Vegas at 96%, so 5.40's should be attainable with 96%. Manzo, Bartone and Pat Austin were all in the 5.50's a few years ago at 125 over. They're back in the low .50's, so at 125, they should get into the 5.40's. A/F Funny Car? Truly a shot in the dark at 98%. To maintain parity, there would have to be rule changes when needed. Maybe factoring tracks for different combinations.

    I also think bringing this format would put Pro Comp on top of a track promoter's list for booked in shows.

    This is just an idea for discussion, not neccessarily a recommendation.

    Now that I'm done, I'm going into my bunker, FIRE AWAY...lol. :D :eek: :cool:
     
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  2. M Tigges

    M Tigges TAFC

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    Whats the percentage of alky cars that have sponsors that are not personaly wealthy already?
     
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  3. Ken Sitko

    Ken Sitko Super Comp

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    We run an integrated show (fc vs dragster) in Mission every year at the Canadian open, and it is a lot of fun. Right now, the fc's get a head start based on the national records, so basically 3 tenths (I guess it would be 4 tenths this year). I think it would turn out pretty even, except that the dragters are often late off the line because they're scared of red-lighting (they might react to the fc leaving instead of the bulb). If the drivers could get over that, I think it might be viable.
     
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  4. Funnycarbob

    Funnycarbob Top Dragster

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    How about a screw or 14/71 on FC

    10/71 or 12/71 on BA dragster

    85% nitro on A\F

    90% on AF\FC
    use LBS to fine tune it
     
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  5. Don Hudson

    Don Hudson Supa fly

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    How about joining a Wed. nignt bowling league
    instead? Will, will, will, will,....
    You got way too much time on your young hands,
    You should start a "free porn" website you'll make a lot of $$$ and keep yourself busy.
     
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  6. ttutubono

    ttutubono Guest

    ProComp, I have two words for why, (Herm Peterson), you figger it out from there Will. Gene Sr.
     
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  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    don, are you going to let me sponsor you when i start that site? plus, its my job to give yall something to talk about. i've heard worse topics brought up in the pits...lol.

    make no bones about this thread, its purely hypothetical. i just want to reiterate that before people think i've lost my mind. at least not all of it.... :D

    i'm a young buck ttutubono, explain the herm peterson part....

    bob, in this perfect pro comp world i've created, i'm trying to keep it as close to the same parts as are currently used. putting roots on b/ad's is too much.
     
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  8. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    I know Herm and his Top Fuel exploits in the NW and I don't know what Gene is talking about..

    I am starting to try and organize a Pro Comp (Outlaw Comp is the name I am thinking of using)
    Including not only Dragsters and Funny Cars but also Pro Mods and Altereds.
    Have had quite a bit of discussion and one of the biggest decisions is whether to use an idex or have every one qualifying and then pick a number.
    No Way to make it heads up with the current equipment everyone already has.
    If there are guys in the NW that are interested email me.
    Log onto my web site to email me.


    Dean
     
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  9. femaledriver335

    femaledriver335 Fuel Altered

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    whatever you do would help divison 2..their tafc shows are on a loosing track!!you need more then 3 cars to show up,even if its altereds or dragsters to fill the 8 car show..
     
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  10. BLOWN INCOME

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    whatever it takes..FUEL ALTEREDS,yes..don't make them have to buy new blowers,just adding cost..14:71 helix..even then they still can't run even with the dragsters..i know ,i ran pro comp in the late 70's and 80's
     
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  11. tjenna

    tjenna Top Alcohol

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    Still like the seperate classes better.

    We cannot even figure out how to run them good seperately. It would be a total joke trying to run them together.

    Maybe a good idea for the races that eliminated the Alcohol cars and do it as a show?

    Tjenna
     
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  12. PHIL MASS

    PHIL MASS TOP ALCOHOL

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    What if NHRA Ran the A/fuel cars at the national events,
    that alcohol does not run during the year the The a/fuel
    cars only haft to run at the NAT events and give them
    their 100 per/cent then they have their own clase

    just a thought
     
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  13. Joe Percoco

    Joe Percoco Member

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    Will for President! (at least president of NHRA!) I have been a long time advocate of splitting the class and have even had some discussions with "the powers that be" but have been shut down immediately. Pro Comp is a great idea . . . . but not on a national level.
    We need a Pro Comp class on the divisional level where dragsters, funnies and altereds all run each other on an index. Maybe a 6.50 index. You can run roots or screw but no nitro. This would be the true training ground for Top Alcohol. Many divisional tracks are dangerous for todays TA cars so lets make them National event cars only. This means making the TA classes a pro catagory at nationals. The only way in hell this would happen is if we go to NHRA with a REAL sponsor who would not only fund the class but throw money at NHRA also. Remember the people at the top are bean counters, not racers. We could probably get NHRA to make jet cars a pro class if there was enough money on the table!! The class at nationals becomes a more or less unlimited class - no blower restrictions, etc. I like the idea a lot of running eliminations on Saturday. It would be a good show to go along with the pro qualifying.

    NHRA's reply to not having TA at divisionals is that some divisional tracks don't have national events anywhere close so this the only time fans can see alky cars. But, if Pro Comp is there, the show would be even better that pure TA as most of those type of fans are not TA "purists" so to see dragsters and funnies run each other would be a kick.

    Oh yea, no electronics or transbrakes for Pro Comp. This class would flood the staging lanes. If you look at the "fast 16" type classes now around the country, they are booming.

    So, how do we get a serious class sponsor?

    Joe
     
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  14. ttutubono

    ttutubono Guest

    From what I rember, After Herm`s crash and burn, his lawyer sued every one that had a decal on his car, I heard that goodyear was going to stop making tires for the fuel cars, because of the crash and law suit, and that's when pro comp came along, to replace top fuel and funny car, with alky dragsters and alky funny cars,if that happend, I may be wrong but that's the way I heard it. Gene Terenzio Sr.
     
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  15. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    dean and joe,

    you both hit pretty close to something i worked on a bit last year, but just couldn't close the deal with some local tracks. it was an outlaw pro comp.

    when putting together a new class for match race purposes, the show has to come first, rules second. there are a bunch of low 4 second 1/8 mile cars around here between the pro mods and fuel altereds to draw from. there is also a good bit of older alcohol cars and cars that couldn't afford to run the state of the art parts and numbers. what i was going to do is put something together where dragsters, fc's, altereds and pro mods would run, and keep the threshhold of performance somewhere around the 3.95 mark. when you combine all those cars you would get a good show with an 8 car bump in the low 4's, and see some interesting races.

    to get something going you have to be pretty liberal with the rules and just get cars to show up and put on a show. if it works, tracks book you and you're putting butts in the seats, then you start tightening up the rules. i've seen several circuits come and go because they come up with rules too strict, worry about inforcing them, and keep more cars from joining.

    to go with what joe was saying about running pro comp at divisionals, i had the class set up where you could run just about anything legal in tad/tafc, just with performance modifications. ie, blown alcohol dragster, psi blower, 63 od, roots 40 od, whipple 36 od. a/f 1 44 amp mag or 2 20 amp msd's or super mags. fc/altereds, roots, unrestricted, psi, 82 od, whipple, 28 od, blown nitro, 30% max. pro mods- unrestricted.

    of course these were just guidelines to get it started. if i knew a car that ran around that performance level, they were in, we'd worry about the rules later.

    back on the nhra front, this class could work, and give an out for some of the older alcohol cars and teams on a budget out there to go race and be competitive. it also should be cheaper to run.

    as far as actually combining the two, it probably would never happen, and nhra would probably have to employ a seperate tech guy just to stay on top of the class.
     
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  16. Don Hudson

    Don Hudson Supa fly

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    Will, you are right, I would take your sponsor $$$, When can I see the site?

    I like porn..
    But I love racing...( or vice verse)

    Thanks for keeping this fun Will.
    Don
     
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  17. was R4K

    was R4K Member

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    6.50 index defeats the purpose of making this a feeder class due to the fact you do not qualify for an alky license if you can only run 6.50.
    ?????????
     
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  18. Ron C

    Ron C Jr. Dragster

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    Sounds like your suggesting something like what we run now. It's called Top Eliminator West. It's a run what you brung, heads up, Pro Tree on a 6.30 index. Any engine combination, any chassis and any kind of fuel. We have funny cars, dragsters and altereds running heads up on a 6.30 bottom.
    Lot's of fun, the crowds love to see the different cars running each other. And the 6.30 keeps cost within reason.....sorta. We book our own shows.
     
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  19. Langenhammer

    Langenhammer New Member

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    Hey Don, love your response to Will. LOL (and I tend to agree). BTW, where were you this weekend? (Firebird Divisional), or are you going to race Div. 6 this year for points? Anyway, you didn't miss much, lots of rain, and only one qualifying pass, and two very hungover mornings. (Way too much free time, what with the rain). August Busch should just about be able to retire on all the Bud Light we consumed in the Niver camp. Anyway, hope to see you in Tucson next month.
     
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  20. DragRacer

    DragRacer new

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    Will,

    Pretty good thread. Fun to knock around this kind of stuff.

    Thanks.
     
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