new motor build questions

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by dragster156, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. dragster156

    dragster156 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    1
    With blower motors (roots 14-71) is there a huge benefit to the latest and greatest heads. Ie new brad ta1x or new noonan/MBE stuff versus older stuff like brad 5 or 6'? Or is that just what makes the motor a few hundreds of a second better than others and really its all blower? tune ? cam ?

    How about ideal bore stroke ? 4.5 bore small stroke ideal ?

    any other comments feel free to add thoughts.
     
    #1
  2. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    19
    I would say that the 2” lifter spread on the block will be worth more than the latest and greatest heads, depending what your trying to do. All the latest heads are similar, never ran brads but the AJPE stuff is nice, but I prefer the Noonan stuff. If your trying to run NHRA or PDRA with a blower/turbo you really need a 4.9 Noonan or AJPE to keep up, maybe brad makes one too? If your trying to go to your local series and qualify, a brad 6 will most likely accomplish that; depends on what your goals are and how big your budget is.
     
    #2
  3. dragster156

    dragster156 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    1
    Guess nobody knows anything in this forum except for you rb0804.
    Nitrous and motor forum would have 200 opinions - lol.

    Thanks for the reply.
     
    #3
  4. SpeedDemon

    SpeedDemon New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    2
    Plenty of great knowledge in this forum for sure. You won't get 200 opinions here, just a few good solid ones you can bank on. rb0804 is definitely proof of this. His response is pretty much spot on. Really depends on what your plans and budget are. You are obviously talking hemi, and there are a lot of good options as far as heads go. My buddy runs an older KB cast block with brad 5s 3spd lenco. Gone 5.94@ 245 TAFC on a mediocre track. Good track maybe 5.7s 250+. And that setup has been put through the wringer. Only turning 9500 rpm. It's a d rotor though not a roots. A resourceful guy could probably duplicate that motor for around 30-35k. You can easily get 20k into a set of latest greatest heads. Noonan, AJPE, BAE older stuff is more affordable and won't really be the limiting factor in your quest for horsepower and speed. It's definitely not like using an old set of Brodix/Dart heads vs the latest Head Hunter chevy stuff.
    I think you're already on the right track thinking money can be better spent on blower setup, cam/rocker arms/valvetrain, transmission, converter/clutch and proper tuning. Especially if you're just looking to haul ass and compete locally and not win the big show nhra championship.
     
    #4
    DaKine and dragster156 like this.
  5. Marc White

    Marc White Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    6
    If you're trying to be at the front of the pack everything matters. Don't get caught up in the "got to have it syndrome" to run very well. We ran 5.50's back in 04 with a set of dual plug brad 5's on a d rotor TAFC. Make your combo happy and efficient .
     
    #5
    dragster156 and nitrowannabe like this.
  6. Kevin O'Dell

    Kevin O'Dell Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    If it was me and I was looking at trade off because I didn't have the budget for all top of the line components. I would spend the money on the fuel system, blower, hat, etc. I've seen good fuel and blower set ups run well on not so great long blocks. I've seen top of line long blocks that ended up with lesser fuel and blower packages because funding ran out that didn't run so well. With the roots stuff that's not a place where you can skimp. I'm not saying you need to sign up for a lease program but do buy as good of equipment as you can in that department. My 2 cents anyway.
     
    #6
    dragster156 likes this.
  7. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    14
    Try and stay as current of a setup as possible. Then you have access to off the shelf parts and quality used stuff. When buying outdated engines finding Quality used parts for spares becomes a real challenge. Then you’ll kick yourself in the ass for taking that road. Truth is you can buy used legal roots engines that are tried and true for pennies in the dollar. Most those guys are moving to the 4.900 Noonan stuff.
     
    #7
    dragster156 likes this.
  8. rb0804

    rb0804 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    19
    Just a couple other things to touch on:


    If you go 4.500 bore you have to keep on top of it. 4.5 bore in a 4.8 bore space block is a little sketchy. Lots of guys run the 4.467 as it’s pretty durable. If you go big bore short stroke, your gonna have to RPM it, so you will have to keep on top of your springs also.


    If the block and heads are not oring’d around the oil feed hole in the deck, it’s a good idea to go ahead and Oring it.


    Camshaft: for the most part a cams a cam, they all make about the same horsepower but they tend to move it up or down in the power band. Some cams are more valvetrain friendly than others. The 296/296 .500 is the “standard” cam.


    Rocker gear: anything that oils the pushrods is ideal, eliminates a lot of ass pain on pushrod tip issues. Still Lube pushrods at the start of the day, everyday.



    The tricky thing with the hemi used parts market is you have to do your research as there is tons of aftermarket stuff out there. You have Noonan, Brad, AJPE, MBE, CoLine, VENEY, MBR, Frankenstein, etc. Not all the parts and pieces interchange. Know what your getting into and which parts fit each head. Also take into account your geographic location vs. your engine of choice. If you hurt your stuff and have to send it back for repair, how long is shipping going to take and how expensive is it going to be? Shipping stuff from the east coast back to the west coast and vice versa can be a pain at times.


    To touch on the nitrous comment, you may get 200 replies, but how many of them are legit? My experience with nitrous guys is they all go off of what their buddy who knows more than them told them and he learned that from someone that went fast one time 20 years ago. I have been working with a clutch program on a nitrous car and we were able to pick it up a good bit by breaking some of those old time nitrous ‘rules’ or whatever you’d like to call them.
     
    #8
    dragster156 likes this.
  9. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,409
    Likes Received:
    66
    There's definitely a difference and I think it has more of an effect in TAD vs TAFC because of boost.

    I think you can go one step or so back and be pretty close. It seems the 8x is closer to the new stuff in performance than an 8. The Noonan Blackhawk is good, AJ 3's, or MBE. The Co-Line stuff is good, but it takes it's own intake.

    The blower is the most important, but the heads are a close second. I think it's been shown time and again the older stuff can run great numbers in good air. I think the big numbers you see in crap air are due to great cylinder heads.

    One TAFC racers told me they picked up 300 hp on the dyno and most of it was going from BAE 8 to TA-1X.
     
    #9
    dragster156 likes this.
  10. dragster156

    dragster156 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ask as you shall receive. Lol

    Thanks guys.
     
    #10
  11. sean70ss

    sean70ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    1
    Most guys are running the std 4.8 Billes has done well with the 4.9 in pro boost PDRA. Unlimited funding as well. TA1X is what I would use.
     
    #11

Share This Page