New flexplate/ can changes ?

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by lucky devil, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    Can anyone shed any light on the new spec regarding 168t flex plates and the can liner issue ?

    We run a Bruno/ Converter behind a BAE 521.

    It sounds like we have to use a smaller flexplate , to enable us to have a full width liner , this will mean we have to re-locate the starter !!

    Any experience yet guys ?

    Thanks Wayne
     
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  2. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    its not a new spec....a 6.3 spec can must have the liner right up to the Mid-plate, Thats the spec.......always has been,... over the years the manufacturers have pulled the liner back to accommodate the 168 tooth ring gear they just got caught out and tried to say racers were altering the cans themselves and moving the liner back ..this obviously was proved to be crap and now the sfi have said if the liners not forward to the mid plate it wont pass the certification,

    iv heard it said that some will have the correct liner fitted for the re-cert then put the narrow one back for racing....if you knowingly alter a certified piece you automatically void the sticker and also open your self up for lawsuits ect if something goes wrong,
    also a quick look in the inspection cover with a torch will show if your legal or not...
    if not you go home....

    trick titanium have done something and in their new cans it will fit...just

    we have to get a 139 tooth flex-plate and starter to get it in our can and be legal,
    the 130 tooth deal makes it hard if not impossible to get a starter close enough to mesh with a bae block as the block is way beefier than the stock Chrysler block it was made for
    you WILL need a new starter or pinion at least as the tooth pitch is different to your Chevy deal

    Wayne don't live in the hope that anyone will be able to oppose this i spoke to Andy who is an authorized repairer/ re-cert guy for trick and other company's and he said there is nothing he can do the spec is the spec and he is changing all his stuff to the Chrysler deal
     
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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  3. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    RAM flywheels have to be cut down and the ring changed. To accommodate the ring RAM has made new starter blocks that will keep the clearance correct without changing the starter mount and the pinion drive remains the same. If you send a Trick Titanium can in for recert it will have the liner modified when it comes back so if you have an on board starter then be prepared. When you send the can in for recert then either include a note giving them permission to modify the can or if you use the online form add a note giving them permission. If no permission then the recert time may be delayed up to two weeks until they contact you.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  4. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    So if a person wants to run a 168 tooth ring gear, can a person order a can that would fit/suit ?........
     
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  5. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    Not from Trick yet. Don't know bout the other companies. If they change the can then they have to do all that $$$$$ SFI testing again.
     
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  6. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    Mike we have a couple of guys here well in Sweden that have recent Trick cans that have been modified by trick and essentially have a very thin liner in the area of the flywheel and a normal thickness liner in the usual location they are using 168 tooth flywheels with liners to the midplate, Have you seen or heard of that??
     
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  7. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    Not from Browell either i got a new can 4 months ago for our Rossler deal and it has the short liner,

    I was told told me Pro Bell is the same??
     
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  8. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    I will call Trick on Monday and ask them about that and see if they are doing that.
     
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  9. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    So am I missing something. Is new rule for legal pro mods ? Is it just for convertor programs or do you need to get your clutch done too. I have a 11 in aft with a Chevy ring gear on my hemi motor with a Chevy starter located down on the right side of the block. Is this all junk now ?
     
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  10. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    The can change is for everyone regardless. If you don't have an on board starter then it is not a problem. If you have a starter on the car then it is a problem because everyone uses the Chevy starter ring on the flywheel and that has nothing to do with the size of the clutch. We have the 11" RAM and what RAM told me is that they have a new slightly smaller starter ring that doesn't require a change to the gear on the starter but requires a slight repositioning of the starter for the correct clearance so RAM made a new starter block to make everything work. Call AFT because they probably know about it and have a fix for it. If not call Pat Norcia at RAM and he can probably cut your flywheel and use their starter ring and starter block.
     
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  11. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    i beleive the fix is a pontiac 166 tooth ring gear,
    iv also been told that the crower 10.7 clutches are a problem as the smaller ring gear gets into into the stand area...
     
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  12. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    166 tooth appears to be the answer , I can't seem to find one for a HEMI crank....
     
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  13. overkill69

    overkill69 Member

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    bell

    I need a bruno/hemi bell and I don't care about SFI. If anybody wants to bail on theirs let me know.

    Thanks
    Mike 3162593883
     
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  14. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    cause it probably dont exist....
    the flexplate manufacturers all produce a chrysler tooth pattern that will fit so why shoud they produce an oddball pontiac pattern, with the clutch guys its just a simple machining exersise I dont know how that affects the clutch cert if it isnt done at the clutch manufacturers but if they all do their own clutches it shouldnt be a problem...us flexplate guys dont have the choice.......
     
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  15. Legends Racing

    Legends Racing New Member

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    Trick Titanium

    I too have been dealing with this issue. Trick Ti has told me the max. OD of the ring gear can be no larger than 13.830. It appears the 166 tooth ring gear is 13.979 and would be to large for the new liner. I got this info off of a google search.
    I have been in touch with Roger at Crower and Mezziere and they are working on a 136 tooth ring gear that may work. It may require a new flywheel and will require the stater to be moved inboard .133 as well as a change to a 10 tooth starter gear. I am awaiting a response from Mezziere and Crower to see what can be done.
     
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  16. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    Keep us posted :)
     
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  17. badbird

    badbird New Member

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    mezziere already make a 139 tooth 10 tooth pitch flexplate that fits...i have one on its way...
    Martin Lundkvist and johan westberg both have 168 tooth rings in late trick ti cans martin uses East west and johan uses Ram clutches so it definatly can be done somehow but i know for sure it ont in a browell can
     
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  18. BobB.

    BobB. OUTLAW Pro Mod

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    ****Chev.168 Ring Gear****

    I was told today that at the PRI show just passed this issue was discussed and was tabled and will be required in 2014 & not 2013 as scheduled.
    Trick also told me their newer cans will accomodate the larger ring gear because of mods to their cans. Also Browell has nothing to fit.
    So, some more oil for the fire.:confused::confused:
    Brgds,
    Bob Blasi
     
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  19. lucky devil

    lucky devil Member

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    Thanks for the input Bob.

    Cheers Wayne
     
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  20. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    Trick Titanium will NOT now recert a can unless the new design liner is installed. You have no choice but to replace the starter ring if the can is recertified. I have a can in at Trick being recertified now and a mandatory replacement of the liner. The problem is here now but we are lucky that Pat Norcia of RAM has our whole clutch right now so he is machining the flywheel and fitting it with the 166 tooth starter ring and supplying the new mounting block for the starter.
     
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