Input on carbon brake rotors.

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by Kramer Metal Fab Inc., Jun 18, 2018.

  1. Kramer Metal Fab Inc.

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    I never thought I would be posting this. 6-9-18 I had my parachutes tangle. 60 previous runs with no issues. I could not get my car stopped. RED. I admit I was complacent in the car and not prepared for this. I have an MW rear with steel brakes. ( proper ratio and master cyl.) It did not seem like they were helping me much.
    I have read on here the pros and cons of carbon. (needing to bake them to clean).
    I don't ever want to go though this again. I will be better prepared but also want better equipment if it is available. Race car has serious damage. I escaped serious injury (no fractures) but dealing with pretty severe back pain, missing work etc.
    Just looking for solid input if properly maintained carbon could have helped me.
    Or if there is maintenance I can do to help the steel rotor set work better. New pads every year?
     
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  2. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    I had all strange steel front and rears. Never had an issue. Then I came across Carbon rears and was leery of what you said. That being said I had a chute rip off at 230 mph and never panicked just pushed on the peddle and made the turn just fine. However it boiled the fluid due to the front being steel rotors still. Now I have all carbon and never looked back. I send them in only if I feel I did something wrong to them. Or normal maintance , every set of pads I’ll send them in for baking. Hope this helps
     
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  3. Marc White

    Marc White Member

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    Go with the carbon for sure. Nothing better. Obviously they work better when hot. Drag them a little on the burnout. If you send them out to get baked over the off season you'll be fine. Don't use any brakekleen or anything else on them. I have scuffed mine if they get a little glazed once in a while. Doubt your car pukes much oil so that makes it even better for you. Glad you're ok
     
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  4. Kramer Metal Fab Inc.

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    Jay and Marc,
    Thank you guys. Yea probably just a winter maintenance deal for me. The 2K for carbon would have been a bargain for what this rebuild will cost me. After going through this my outlook on safety has changed a lot and I think it was already pretty good. My poured seat probably saved me a lot of injury.
    Thanks and blessings to all.
    Rusty
     
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  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    First off glad you are ok.

    Back in my TAFC driving days, it was at the tail end of the days you could still run steel brakes. I pretty much knew if I had a chute failure on a full run, even with a long track, I was going in hot. The guy I was driving for had given me the green light to do whatever I needed to do in any situation. Having a converter drive transmission, I could lay on the transbrake and get some braking that way (opposed to locking them up if it was a OEM style transbrake).

    I haven't driven a carbon brake car, but as many times as I have seen my TD customer not get the chutes out and still make the turn at 230-240, has made me a firm believer.

    Carbon is like a sponge, so if you are going to do a big cleanup in the rear, either spray the rag and wipe or take the wheels off, cover the rotors with a trashbag, tape off and then you can go to town with the air blower and brake clean.

    It's not that big of a hassle to send them off to strange to get baked, or anyone else that may have an industrial oven.

    The brakes will not be as good cold, so drag the brakes towing to the line and it doesn't hurt to put a small drag on them in the burnout to put some heat in them. We have also found pulling up to the line in high gear reduces the tug on the car since it doesn't have the ratio. Our car auto dumps into low when you hit the transbrake.
     
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  6. Outlaw Funnycar

    Outlaw Funnycar New Member

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    Will Hanna what does strange get to bake the rotors? Or can I do it myself? If so what temp and for how long. And what can I clean them with? I love the way they grab when hot and the hotter they get the more they grab and I still have steel rotors on front.
     
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  7. Mike Kern

    Mike Kern New Member

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    Note: Rear Carbon Brakes perform best with caliper pressure from 1,100-1,200 psi Note: Pads should be replaced when thickness equals .200” or less. Replace rotors when thickness equals .300” or less. Rotors wear concave and pads wear convex; therefore, measure rotor thickness in the middle of the rotor and pad thickness in the area where there areno pistons. Note: Keep Carbon away from all chemicals. If contamination occurs the carbon component must be baked for 8 hours @ 500º F-(Bake Carbon O NLY! REMOVE ALUMINUM HAT & HARDWARE B EFO REBAKING)- If badly contaminated an odor will occur. Note: The HOTTER the rotors become, the MORE EFFECTIVE brakin g becomes. Carbon brakes will stop your vehicle far better at the “top end” and will not “hold” as well at the starting line, compared to steel brakes. We recommend that when you first drive or “tow” your vehicle to the starting line, you apply the brakes several times to get the “feel” of carbon at low speeds. After you become comfortable with the vehicle at “pit area” speeds, you may want to “drag” the brakes to create rotor and pad heat to better hold the vehicle at the starting line. We recommend a few 1/2 or 3/4 passes, so as to become aware of how yo ur carbon brakes perform at higher M.P.H. Remember carbon works better at higher temperature. The longer the brakes are applied the more aggressive brakin g will become.
     
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  8. TOL

    TOL Active Member

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    Is "Brake Cleaner" okay around the carbon surfaces or not?
     
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  9. Outlaw Funnycar

    Outlaw Funnycar New Member

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    Thanks for the info mike Kern. Greatly appreciated. I mostly do 1/8th mile stuff and some of the tracks are marginal but I haven't had any issues stopping so far even though my front brakes are steel and the rear is carbon. I really like the way they scrub speed off so much quicker than steel brakes. Throw the chutes under power and tug on the handle and usually I have to let off the brakes or I feel lile oh shit am I going to make it to the turnoff lol. How often should I bake the rotors though is my most important question and what can I clean them with? Again thanks Mike Kern
     
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  10. Eric David Bru

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    No, it is not.
     
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  11. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Just to give a little nod to Marc White, back in 2004 he drove my TA/FC at Pomona which has a short shut off. He ran 255+ miles per hour and the chutes tangled and never opened. I stood on the starting line and waited for the cloud of sand in the sand trap. Nope. Marc made the turn like any other run. Although I had carbon fiber brakes on it I fully expected him to take it in deep like Bucky had done that weekend. When we got down to the other end to fetch him I asked him how he got the car stopped without the chutes. He said "I treat every run as if I know the chutes aren't going to work by getting after the brakes immediately after the finish line. Once I feel the chutes tug I back off the brakes. If I waited to find out I had no chutes before getting after the brakes there wouldn't be enough real estate left to stop this thing." Then he turned around and walked off. Probably saved us a few thou $$ minimum.
     
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  12. Kramer Metal Fab Inc.

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    Absolutely correct Randy. I was doing this properly when I first drove my car. Then got complacent. I had 3 things go wrong. 1) Chutes tangled. 2) I was not on the brakes like I should have been immediately after the chute lever. 3) inferior brake performance. Have fun with the new car.
     
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  13. secondwindracing

    secondwindracing top alcohol

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    i have carbon and ill never look back... my front motor fuel car is steel and its a hand full to stop...carbon for it is on the way also
     
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  14. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

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    Thanks. Wish me luck on my diet, too. LOL
     
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  15. Kramer Metal Fab Inc.

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    Just asking,, what if you get some oil on carbon rotors at the track and you need to make one or two more runs?
     
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  16. kosky racing

    kosky racing Comp Eliminator

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    I have used in the past a chemical that you can no longer buy and is deemed dangerous-paper towel and carbon tetrachloride worked great-dont know if the spelling is corect
     
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  17. Eric David Bru

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    That is a good question, my first thought is to use dawn dish soap and water once the rotors are cool to the touch.

    I am interested to see what the other guys say.
     
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  18. Nitro Madness

    Nitro Madness Super Comp

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    FYI - We had a chute failure identical to Rusty Kramer's last weekend at Eddyville (same track as Rusty's chute failure)...carbon brakes front & rear on 125" Altered....Radar stopped in plenty of time...and mentioned when he got back to our pit that the carbon brakes just paid for themselves....his first tug locked the rear tires and then the second pull was smooth and slowed the car from 190 to 0 without parachutes...
    I built the car with carbon brakes for future resale value figuring that since the rules were changing at the time and steel brakes were becoming obsolete I better upgrade during the assembly....glad I did now!!
    Carbon brakes are WELL WORTH the extra expense!!
     
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