Chilling methanol

Discussion in 'PSI Superchargers Tech Questions' started by Nasa6173, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. Nasa6173

    Nasa6173 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hello,
    We are going to be chilling our methanol this season. The rules for top dragster are much more relaxed than top alcohol when it comes to fuel temp. I am trying to find any information on how effective it is. And how it will effect the tune we currently have. Any information on this subject will be greatly appreciated.

    Kyle Hansen
     
    #1
    Nasa6173, Jan 3, 2015
  2. aj481x

    aj481x Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    18
    To succeed in T/D you have to be consistent, seems like chilling fuel would just add another variable.
     
    #2
    aj481x, Jan 5, 2015
  3. SoDak

    SoDak Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    3
    Patrick Hale's weather book explains what you are looking for from the technical side of things.
     
    #3
    SoDak, Jan 5, 2015
  4. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    132
    fuel temp

    There's definitely some performance to be had, but with that said, it's another variable you have to chase. The best advise for TD racing is keep your fuel indoors and try to keep the sun off the tank as much as possible.

    If you needed some performance to make the bump, you may be able to find a few hun but it's not going to pick you up a tenth or anything. Not to mention you need to know what adjustments to make to compensate for it.
     
    #4
    Will Hanna, Jan 5, 2015
  5. Nasa6173

    Nasa6173 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    1
    Consistency is a big part of it. Having our fuel at the same temp every run, to take a variable out. That being said we have a different goal in td than most teams. We chose top dragster because you can run blown alcohol down to 6 seconds and we can't afford a top alcohol schedule. Out goal first and foremost is to run as fast as we can. We want to run bottom 6's . Being successful in winning races will be hard for us consider we don't use any electronics ( delay box, throttle stops ect) I set tranny brake and then launch off the foot on the last amber and am wfo the whole way ( unless I break it )

    Our thinking in the cooler charge of the methanol will reduce detonation during combustion, also cooling he blower, resulting in a tighter clearance. there is an argument that evaporated methanol before the blower displaces air. not sure I buy that but I am willing to entertain the idea
     
    #5
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    Nasa6173, Jan 5, 2015
  6. Randy G.

    Randy G. Top Alcohol

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Likes Received:
    36
    Keep in mind that if the ambient air temp gets down into the 60's cooling the fuel isn't going to help.

    I think Will is right. In your case keeping the fuel out of the sun, covering your fuel tank, etc, is about all you need to do. Lining up in the staging lanes with 40 degree fuel one run and not the next due to an oil down or whatever that parks you in the staging lanes for 30 minutes and allows your fuel to heat up (which it can very quickly) is just another variable that will screw you up.

    I haven't messed with TD much, but to me a decent combination would revolve around a higher compression lower overdrive combination that would keep the quench area smaller reducing the chances of detonation. If you need more power add fuel and increase overdrive. Don't screw with the timing unless the corrected altitude gets higher than 4,000 ft. I'd get a nice set of 92 CC Brad 5 heads or something for $2,500 and go for it. Heck, we ran 5.50's in my TA/FC with an old set of 5's eleven years ago at Pomona and we were pretty stupid back then. LOL. 6.0's in a TD should be a no brainer.

    What do you think, Will?

    Good luck this year.
     
    #6
    Randy G., Jan 5, 2015
  7. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    132
    chilling fuel in bracket racing

    One of the things about chilling the fuel is the time of when you put the fuel in the car until you run. I have a customer with a screw blown TD and went to all of his races with him last year. Sometimes you sit in the lanes for a while. Sometimes on raceday if you are going rounds, you have a very quick turnaround and spend very little time in the lanes.

    I'm sure insulated tank and lines will help, but still the temp is going to rise with time. The other problem you are going to run into is with the possibility of 5 rounds on Sunday you are going to have to have one hell of a freezer.

    I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm probably versed as anyone else in the country or world on running chilled fuel on a blown alcohol car; I do it on all of my Top Alcohol teams I tune. I could if I wanted to chill the fuel on the TD, but I think it's another variable we don't need. You have to treat the fuel temp just as important as the air temp and know what changes to make.

    On a Top Dragster combo I set the compression on the low side, then tell them a safe timing 'max.' I basically have the TD built as a calmed down TAFC 92 over motor. It's so overkill even at 2280 lbs I slowly ramp the power back in from 1.8 to 5.0.

    You can run 6.0, but in my opinion qualifying with a 6.08-6.10 is optimum. That way if you have a late night e1 or early morning e1, you have room to dial the car down without making any tune-up changes. When you are qualified with a 6.03 or quicker in the heat, then run first round in the cool, you probably have to make some sort of tune up adjustment whether it's calming the timing curve down or richening the engine.

    There are definitely some benefits to running 6.0. You are almost always the last car to leave, so you give the other car the first chance to redlight. You close so fast on most cars they can't drive the stripe. Some can't resist the urge to lift because they don't see you. The way we have our combination set up it's so docile off the line we are not very sensitive to track conditions.
     
    #7
    Will Hanna, Jan 6, 2015

Share This Page





XenPorta 2 PRO © Jason Axelrod from 8WAYRUN.COM