A/F Funny Car

Discussion in 'Pit Buzz' started by Dave Germain, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. Dave Germain

    Dave Germain New Member

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    I was thinking about the Pro-Sportsman Association and the aims of the group to try to increase the fan draw and attention to the alcohol classes. What about injected nitro funny cars? Yeah there would be all the bitching and complaining about percentages and parety but it would still be really interesting. Not to mention cheaper? I like the idea of valve springs and crankshafts lasting long enough for me to pay for them before they expire. Not to mention stepping on the accelerator of an injected funny car would just have to be a blast. Plus doesn't nitro like to be loaded? Nothing like dragging a funny car body around to help load the motor. Just a wild thought--Dave Germain
     
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  2. jim@victoryracecars

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    Dave, your idea is a good one. We have proposed that class to the NHRA twice in the last ten years or so. Each time the response was "no interest". It would be great from a fan's perspective, but, a nightmare for the tech people...I'm guessing.:)
     
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  3. diecast153

    diecast153 New Member

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    Injected Funny Car

    Dave back in the early '70's I crewed an INJECTED FUNNY CAR and did a lot of over the road with it.Like any other car once you learn what you are doing with if and get the "BUGS" out of it they are a lot of fun and cheaper to run.I don't think that NHRA will ever go back to them.No big corp.$$$$ in it.I think that you would have to start out as an "OUTLAW" GROUP.I could just see me trying to talk ERIC LOURIE into switching.I would be out of a job sooner then I think.

    CHUCK
     
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  4. Cpt Kludge

    Cpt Kludge Member

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    Dave,

    That's the direction we are headed but the only game in town right now is the Heritage series. While I'm guessing the Heritage A/F class would allow a F/C body the 1875# weight will probably be tough to hit. We have one of our 8.3 liter Arias engines we are building around these rules, under 550", 11 GPM pump, stack injector, etc. If NHRA ever goes back to a A/F F/C class we would be right there. I'm a nitro junkie but can't afford to play in the supercharged nitro ranks and for me it has to be a F/C.

    Steve
     
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  5. Charles Stewart

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    Hi Chuck,
    Everything have a good side and in your case, an A/F Funny car set-up will give you: less "diving job" and a lot more "talking time"...:D
    and by the way, say Hello to the Lourie family, from thoses strange white head guys... way up, near the North Pole...
    Take care,
    Charles Stewart
     
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  6. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Psa

    This is the type of deal we agreed when forming the PSA to stay out of - performance/combo based rules deals.

    That's not to say we would be for or against it, just not what we were formed to get involved in. We are working to promote the alcohol classes. If at some point in the future, A/F FC was included, we would promote them just the same.

    A lot of different performance/combo related deals could be twisted to "well it will make for a better show, so you guys need to take the issue up."
     
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  7. rognelson777

    rognelson777 Member

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    I know you do not want to get into rules of the class, but think about the marketing opportunities, Come out and see the nitro cars face off against the Methanol cars,

    I personally enjoy seeing the A / dragsters run and the controversy and publicity it brings to the sport. And maybe some different sponsors.
     
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  8. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    my thoughts

    These are my thoughts outside of an official "PSA" opinion.

    Whether you are for or against A/F FC's, you have to be able to show that you would be able to bring in more new cars than you would lose. You will have racers that say to hell with it and quit. Some racers will switch. It has taken years to get TAD to the point it is now where it's pretty even.

    Then you need to look at the cost effectiveness of the switch. At lower nitro percentages, they have to step on them a good big harder than they used to. Tuneup related issues aside, you gain alot of expenses when you go over to nitro. Twice the ignition - plugs, wires, mags. You have one more disc and floater, but your clutch bill will be about double. Go price 36" Goodyears. Depending on if the tire wants to chunk, you may get 2 runs, you may get 20 runs. Not to mention you have to mount the damn things yourself, which is another story... Whatever heads you buy, better have at least 3 sets, if not more...

    Price a drum of nitro vs methanol.

    Another reality of the A/F combo, especially at the lower nitro percentages, you either have to buy a tune up or have a paid tuner handy to run good or even respectable in some instances. Not to mention it hasn't been done, so learning curve always costs money. When nitro throws a fit, it's ugly. It's usually not just replacing burst panels, a few studs and maybe a rod/piston.

    Next put your accountant hat on, figure in the loss on the sale of all your blown equipment, purchase of A/F equipment and figure out how much money you would have to save to really be money ahead.

    As I've said before in the AFD vs BAD cost deal, tuneup has as much to do with the expense as combo. I know for a fact guys like Steve Harker haul ass, win races and just don't tear a lot of things up. I have seen him get 80+ runs out of a crank, at least that many runs out of pistons, etc.

    If the tune up isn't right, it will be more like stepping into a wet cardboard box than hitting the 'loud pedal'.

    If there's a reason to allow A/F FC's, it shouldn't be based on the fact it's night and day cheaper.

    If you want to go nitro and do it in a FC, there's Nostalgia. I think they would be on par with each other on operating expenses. I personally just don't see the demand there of people that would jump in and build an A/F FC that haven't already built a NFC.

    It's my belief that you would not draw enough new cars into the class to offset the ones that would leave. Even if you get A/FD guys to switch over and run AF/FC, it really wouldn't be a positive because you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Again, this is my opinion, not a statement on behalf of the PSA.
     
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  9. The Zone

    The Zone Member

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    With the decline of the TA classes overall, there does not seem to be a way to get more guys to the classes. Hopefully what Todd can do media wise will help the class and will make the owners look at their programs to enhance or maybe expand. If there is more money made at the regional events with the new exposure given maybe track will be not so negative about improving payouts, and more will return to these two great classes.

    All that being said, an A/Fuel Funny Car would be bitchin and would do nothing but enhance a class that is a bit stagnant due to THE Master 'Ace' dominating it.
    But my honest opinion is that some guy would have to build one and run it a few times and show all the interested partys the potential of that type of car.

    Nitro Funny Car is more popular than Top Fuel because of the rivalries and they way the class is promoted and marketed by the big two (and two a lesser extend the next four or five) teams.
    An injected version is the lower dollar version of Force's car but the look, the flames, the smell and the sound would be more grass roots.....What's not to like

    Dean
     
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  10. ITS IN MY BLOOD

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    I totally applaud the content and idea of this thread, and especially from you Dave.
    You are my Hero,..lol

    I beg to differ on the thought that there would not be enough cars that would make
    the transition. As if many current alky funny car drivers havent already spoke up in the past and said Hell Yea to the " what if HRA would allow them "

    NITRO ATTRACTS,...PERIOD........Bring back Pro Comp..!!!!!!

    Great thread Dave...:cool:


    :D
     
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  11. 310TAD

    310TAD Top Alcohol

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    When TARA was still alive, NHRA ask us to go out and poll the active TA/FC owners on there thoughts about allowing A-Fuel Funny Cars. We did as we were ask. I heard alot of bad words and about 75% to 80% of the teams were against it(can't remember the exact numbers). That was sometime in the 2000's and things may have changed some by now, but I doubt it has been a total about face.
    As Will said, this is just information and has nothing to do with any position in the newly formed PSA.

    Keep brainstormin,
    Marty
     
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  12. alt 6153

    alt 6153 Member

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    If you only poll the "Active TA/FC owner", I think that someone is missing the point. How about polling the Inactive owners that have been forced to the sidelines!! They are usually the people trying to find a way back into the game. Just a thought.
     
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  13. eli

    eli Banned

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    Now heres a post with some BRAIN tought in it. :cool:
     
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  14. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Marty McFly...

    The TARA deal was around 2003-2004. If 70-80% of the active owners then were against it back then, how does that equate to bringing back owners forced to the sidelines now 8 years later?

    Whether you are for or against it, how many people that have quit are going to build an injected nitro FC for NHRA competition that haven't already built a Nostalgia FC?
     
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  15. rognelson777

    rognelson777 Member

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    How about coming up with a way to bring those nostalgia cars into the fold.


    12 dragsters at Pomona. Sorry showing

    16 funny cars. Why have qualifying?

    Can you say Larry Dixon's nostalgia dragster against Duane Shields. I think Bartone's have a nostalgia rail, what does that run? Up the nitro and it might be competetive with 1 fuel pump.


    And I think in Australia they run funny cars against dragsters.

    You want to create excitement and promotional opportunities, Think about these.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  16. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna We put the 'inside' in Top Alcohol
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    Psa

    The mission of the PSA is to promote the classes that are currently in place. We are not looking to reinvent Pro Comp, we are not looking for ways to make the classes more affordable by changing this rule or letting this combo in. If someone has a good idea, it has public support there are plenty of other channels to pursue that. The PSA is not for that.

    We subscribe to the belief that we have the entertainment value, we just need to package it better and promote it better.

    Even if some of these suggestions were the answer (which I don't agree with) if it isn't promoted, it will get the same results.

    We're taking this bull by the horns. You will see more media coverage of the Top Alcohol classes this year than ever. Take that to the bank. We are working our ass off to make sure every track we race at is promoting us. We are trying to look forward to next year and avoid the scheduling conflicts that keep racers from attending races and also the conflicts that keep track operators from promoting our shows (back to back regional and nationals). We are working on things behind the scenes on a lot of different things and we haven't been 'in business' for a month yet.

    So if down the road if A/F FC is part of TAFC, we'll promote the hell out of it. We're not re-inventing the wheel, we're gonna polish it up and make it shine..
     
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  17. rognelson777

    rognelson777 Member

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    One last thought, The PSA should take many of the ideas from this thread and take the info to the track owners, current racers, previous racers and racers in closely related classes see what they think about the ideas.

    Amazing how much info for the organization and promoting the PSA if you just ask.


    How about a thread with Racers ideas on promotions for the PSA.
     
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  18. Blown Chances

    Blown Chances New Member

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    Dave!

    I need to send you an email...

    Where do I send it?

    Flash
     
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  19. LesMayhew

    LesMayhew New Member

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    I would love to see it. Bartone's N/TF went 5.57 @ 274 in testing this year...they are already allowed 100% Nitro. John Hale went 5.58 at last years Hot Rod Reunion in a AA/FC. A Nostalgia Funny Car vs. Modern TA/FC match up would be awesome!
     
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  20. Eric Strandberg

    Eric Strandberg New Member

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    Adding N/TF and N/FC would definatley add cars to each class.As long as the engine rules don't change for the Nostalgia Heritage Cars.
    To the best of my recollection in N/FC it is any percentage nitro,a 6/71 supercharger at 19 percent max overdrive;points mag only;20 gal max fuel pump;three disc max clutch and a 3.90 or lower gear.
    Not too sure about front engine N/TF,last I knew the class was regulated to the 392 style Hemi with the same rules as above,but maybe now the late model 426 is allowed also?
    And what about the few rear engine N/TF dragsters (250 inch wb) following the above rules?
    Could these classes all live together as two heads up eliminators?
    The PSA is the best thing to happen to the alcohol classes in years,for sure.
     
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