14-71 High Helix Edjucation

Discussion in 'Manton Push Rods Top Alcohol Tech Questions' started by Bob Alberty Jr., Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Bob Alberty Jr.

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    14-71 High Helix Education

    Finally got it through my hard head via dyno proof that my current 60 degree Kuhl 14-71 isn't what my deal needs. (made 24lbs at 48% over)

    What I am currently using:

    Kuhl 14-71 Supercharger, Polished aluminum, Has large 15.31 top opening, Delta discharge opening. Hard anodized billet rotors. Short snout. RCD belt guard.

    Enderle Big and ugly, 5.562 throttle blades, 10.5 tall, with k barrel valve.

    Adapter to put a small bolt pattern hat (bug bird etc) on blowers with 15.31 bolt pattern.

    D/J blower restraint, made for the 15.31 opening.

    Looking to put some air in the motor before the start of the 2016 season, and looking at high helix blowers.

    With so many different High Helix roots blowers on the market, different options available, bolt pattern changes etc, and knowing what I parts I have, to either use, or try to sell, what are the pro's and con's, what would you be looking to buy on the experienced blower market.

    Will be going on a 540" big block Chevrolet that made 1625hp with the above parts on it, in a 260" Top Dragster.

    Personally a screw is the way I want to take my program, but the ole budget just laughs and laughs when that thought enters my head.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  2. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    So based on what I can tell from your post you have no overdrive restriction on a Roots. Right now they best bang for the buck is the Littlefield LB-21. Give Andy a call at Littlefield and talk to him. The problem with a screw blower is that there are a limited amount of races to go to. A lot of tracks don't allow or don't want the screw blower cars because the roots guys will not come to the race if they are there. If you have a OD restriction of 20
    % or lower then you need a Superman type blower but you can't do high OD on them
     
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  3. Bob Alberty Jr.

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    NHRA has no restrictions on overdrive, screw is allowed, and I can run 7 divisionals inside of 300 miles. IHRA, no screws, and limits a 14-71 to 36%, but their races include more travel.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  4. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    One thing about the screw and NHRA is that it has to be SFI recerted every two years so only PSI can do that so that is around $1200 plus shipping there and back. Can you use a C or D screw? The screw doesn't have to be restripped all the time. If you use PRIZM you can get about 26-30 runs on a Roots before you really start loosing boost.
     
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  5. Bob Alberty Jr.

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    Nothing about no c's in the rule book, but honestly the screw is out of my reach at this time. I'm looking more for info about modern 14-71 helix's
     
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  6. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    Call Andy Wilfong at Littlefield and talk to him about their new LB-21.
     
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  7. NITROBANDIT1

    NITROBANDIT1 LOST IN SPACE

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    hamptons

    if the rulebook just says roots blower, isn't the hapmton super II legal? might be a cheaper choice. does anybody have any info on this large rotor blower yet?
     
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  8. Bjs344

    Bjs344 Member

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  9. kosky racing

    kosky racing Comp Eliminator

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    certs on a screw

    Certs for a screw are every three years .Dont know if they have to be certed to run top dragster
     
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  10. Mike Canter

    Mike Canter Top Dragster

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    I believe regardless of what car they are on if they are running a NHRA event then they have to be up to date on certification. Have anybody ever heard of or seen a C or D screw blower come apar? I know there were some problems when they first came out but just talking about C and D blowers. I have seen some Kobelco Roots blowers come apart.
     
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  11. Bob Alberty Jr.

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    Screws are 3 year certs, and they have to be current.
     
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  12. wld4x4

    wld4x4 Member

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    Ssi f3

    I got just what you need Ad #182553905 on racing junk. Big and Ugly bolts on and opening blends with out an adapter. I will let this blower go as is for 5900 or fresh for 6500. You wont be disappointed. This is a good blower! This blower will come pretty close to doubling your current boost at 48 over.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  13. Bjs344

    Bjs344 Member

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    ^^ that's what I ended up with. Mine is a 14xx serial number, but the only differences in F3s is high or low OD. Mine is a high OD. Compared to the 07 Littlefield I was running, on my setup, the F3 is probably worth a few hundredths. The main reason I went with the high end blower was A. I couldn't find another decent mid 2000 era blower at a decent price when I wanted to buy, and B. at least there is a chance of repairing this if something happens. Nobody has replacement rotors for the older blowers. Also, I assume if I ever get after the OD this blower will keep making power instead of heat. So far up to 38 over at 8100 this has been very linear.
     
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  14. turbo69camaro

    turbo69camaro Member

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    When is the last time the blower was stripped or serviced it has to be a total wore out pos to only make 24 lbs
     
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  15. jay70cuda

    jay70cuda Member

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    There is a reason why blower get put up for sale. Either the person had moved on from it to go faster or there wore out junk that people are trying to move. Best advice i can tell you is look at the class your trying to run, what's competive and what's leading the way. Then ask yourself what's my bottom dollar I want to spend for a blower. Then add $3000 to it assuming everybody is gonna pick up some over the winter too. I've owned everything from new stock kobelco to m5 to an al billes deal and if I would of followed the Advice I gave you I would have saved myself $26000 in just blowers. Not to mention parts and blow ups
     
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  16. wld4x4

    wld4x4 Member

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    Selling blowers

    And sometimes people that update every couple of years have good stuff for sale and care that someone can get good parts and save a little money!
     
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  17. TADHemiracer

    TADHemiracer Member

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    Parts Option

    I have a tendancy to go into something on the edge of technology.....the TRAILING edge. If I would have followed that advise you just gave I would have saved a ton of money and had current stuff instead of the fuel headed roots blown stuff that I bought. I will just run what I have but if I WAS going to upgrade, I would start with a screw and work my way down the block. Just saying.
     
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  18. Bob Alberty Jr.

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    My current Blower has 1 pass, and 6 dyno pulls on it. I don't know that anything could be done with it to pick it up, and really not sure I would want to spend anything more on it.

    I will keep the SSI mentioned above in mind, as well as any listed after, but my main purpose at this time is to educated myself on what's what in the high helix world. I will probably wait till after the first of the year before I jump on anything, unless something extraordinary surfaces.

    The bump is going down drastically every year. It took a 6.496 to qualify at the Gateway LODRS. No need to do something to just be at the back of the pack. A screw isn't out of the question, yet.
     
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  19. Soldierboy0098

    Soldierboy0098 Active Member

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    Blowers

    Hi Bob, depending on how fast you are wanting to go and your budget will help to determine your choices. Old Littlefield blowers w/ the Kobelco rotors are good bangs for the buck and will kill that 60 degree Kuhl you have now. For reference the last car I tuned on was in TD and was about a 260" dragster w/ a 540 Blown alky 23 degree BBC. With an old LF w/ k-8 rotors that was wore in comfortably it ran 6.20's in the 1/4 in Georgia in some very humid conditions. That blower would sell between $2,500-$3,000 today. The K-9 rotors are a slight improvement but you have to make sure they don't have the large lightening holes or they will crack, the LF w/ K-11's work very good and I would think could be had for $3,500 in stock form. From here we go on to the setback rotor style blowers. Old SSI-d rotors can be found for $3,000-$3,500 sometimes and are good units, SSI F rotor blowers are stout without any mods and go anywhere from $4,500-$6,500 depending on if its a F rotor, F2, F3, or F4. F4 is the latest last I knew. The Fowler F-11 is the old Kobelco K-11 superman except its under new ownership and those blowers are awesome especially when modded by the right people. The new LB 21 blowers are going to be somewhere in line with the Setback rotor K-11's and F-3's or F-4's I would think. Also PSI roots blowers are nice pieces for high od, or mid with a shoe. They make a 1", 1.5", and 2" setback with the 1" being older units and the 2" the latest. I have seen these for around $5,500-$6,000. I have not kept up with the used M4/M5 markets. The M5 is pricey and they had tendencies for the cases to crack which may have been fixed in later designs.

    Any blower can be ran at high od if the opening is big enough but some are better at it than others, the PSI roots for example is a good high od blower but will start to do worse and worse as you run less and less even with shoes and such. Mid 30 percent is the lowest I would go with one of those. The M-5 units are good at low to mid od but I would not very good high od blowers. Also depending on if its a clutch or converter car will change your desired od considerably. The Fowler F-11 (Or Kobelco Superman K-11) blowers can be set up for low, mid, or high od and are great blowers but generally after 30 percent od you start to lose a lot due to heat and horsepower to drive.


    Any high helix will be a step up from a std rotor deal but depending on budget and e.t. desired you can spend or save money. I would avoid Mooneyham's, BDS, Kuhl's, ect....these designs are older although BDS has done some work I am not sure how good they ended up, I do not see them on many cars.
    If you are looking to run 6.0 and have a solid New century or KB olds type Chevy then I would say a Fowler F-11 (or K-11 superman) at 29 od, a PSI 1.5" or 2" blower at 38-42 od with a shoe, or possibly the LB 21 would be solid choices.

    Its a lot of info but I hope it helps,
    Trev

     
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  20. Bjs344

    Bjs344 Member

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    Excellent info with a couple exceptions. There is an F5. I think f3 or later will easily run 6.0s. And I THink the ODs being quoted are referencing 9000+ engine RPM?
     
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